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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'

979 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 18:09

Phil Hammond called the EU the enemy. Then retracted it. A classic political move, to pitch to one group and then say you didn't mean it after all.

This is the UK's negotiation strategy. Because the negotiation isn't really with the EU. Its the ongoing debate over the what leaving the EU actually means since it wasn't officially defined prior to the referendum and has been left to politicians to say its one thing to persuade people to support them and then decided no that's not really what they meant after all.

The whole thing makes it impossible for the EU to respond to us, because we don't appear to know what we want.

The EU have been explicit in their position. So things they can not do because of the limitations of trade rules and EU law. Its possible work arounds could be possible for some things - but certainly not all which too many Brexiteers fail to acknowledge.

And then there is the a50 deadline which is like a snake coiled around May's neck slowly strangling her. A self imposed screwing of our negotiating position. One that kills off our Brexit options and ups the stakes into a brinkmanship battle - not with the EU but between the hardlines and the sane. Its not even about remaining, though that option might well end up being the only option left on the table through our own folly, rather than out of EU malice.

The longer we take to work out what we want the higher the stake become and the more we destroy the foundations of our economy in the meantime, even if we do stay in.

We have only just noticed that we've lost money worth 25% of our GDP and we have no net assets anymore, when in early 2016 we had significant assets. Project Fear they said was wrong. Well was it?

We are flat broke as a nation.

Then there is the Great Repel Bill. The Bill was supposed to be in the Commons this week. It was delayed a week due to the sheer number of amendments. There are nearly a dozen with enough Tory rebels to make them stick. Including one for parliament to have a meaningful vote on what option we take - including no deal. If parliament rejected this, we would be left in a situation where we sure as hell better hope a50 is reversible or we could end up unlawfully leave the EU by accident!

And the Lords could be fun for the Repel Bill. The Labour whip has vowed to examine every amendment properly even if the commons don't. And they are free and within their rights to do so.

Still May could exit stage left. Or left with egg all over her face as she has to suck up to the 'enemy' for being such a tool for the last 18months, because she hasn't made progress on the negotiations that really matter. The Tory party ones.

Whichever way you cut it, you can be sure on only one thing: it will go to the wire for both. And possibly beyond with an eleventh hour extension to prevent chaos.

There are hints that the public mood might be changing. Not fast enough. Yet. Interest rates? A break in the triple lock? Phil's budget sure will be interesting. Especially as Brexiteers want money to prepare and protect us from a no deal scenario which they also tell us will be just fine and won't be a problem. Bye Bye NHS, don't get flu this winter. As a note once infamously said: 'There's no many left'.

We are Greece. Only worse. And out of pressure and deadlines we alone created. We just haven't realised it. Yet.

And if this doesn't make you cringe and brace yourself in horror:

Danny Kemp‏ @dannyctkemp
May wants to take the floor at EU summit dinner on Thursday to explain Brexit policy to fellow leaders, senior official says

Just remember her party speech and think: What could possibly go wrong...

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BigChocFrenzy · 20/10/2017 21:17

frumpety Extreme nationalism leads to very poor decision-making, because the emotion swamps all logical or analytical thought

Badders08 · 20/10/2017 21:17

Anyone seen the big short?

thecatfromjapan · 20/10/2017 21:20

frumpety I've been reading "Inferno" (Dan Brown). I'm wondering if we're taking the wrong approach?

Maybe we need to start smiling manically when Leavers start frothing, and join in eagerly agreeing that things have been going to hell in a hand cart, the EU has made people soft, and then start getting really fervid saying how much we're looking forward to Brexit, it's going to be a cull, there are too many people in the UK, it's a small island, Brexit is going to get rid of the weak and those who can't shift for themselves, we don't need the NHS, we have too many sickly people who drain resources, there's something wrong with having more people living in a place than we have food to feed them with, this is a way to rebalance.

I wonder if it might work ...

prettybird · 20/10/2017 21:28

Badders - yes, I saw the film. Quite scary as we don't seem to have learnt any lessons. Sad

Badders08 · 20/10/2017 21:29
Sad
BigChocFrenzy · 20/10/2017 21:37

Detailled analysis of social media and suspected bots in the German GE

http://democracy-reporting.org/social-media-in-the-german-elections-issue-no-2/

LurkingHusband · 20/10/2017 22:06

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/how-i-learnt-to-loathe-england

When I came to live in London with my family in 2011 I did not have to think of a work or residency permit. My children quickly found an excellent state primary school, and after a handful of calls we enjoyed free healthcare, and the right to vote in local elections. The only real bureaucratic hassle we encountered that warm summer concerned a permit to park. It all seemed so smooth compared to earlier moves to the United States, Egypt, Lebanon and Israel/Palestine. Then again, this time we were moving in with our cousins—weren’t we?

We had arrived as fellow Europeans, but when we left this summer to return to the Netherlands we felt more like foreigners: people tolerated as long as they behave. At best we were “European Union nationals” whose rights would be subject to negotiations—bargaining chips in the eyes of politicians. As we sailed from Harwich, it occurred to me that our departure would be counted by Theresa May as five more strikes towards her goal of “bringing down net immigration to the tens of thousands.”

The Dutch and the British have a lot in common, at first sight. Sea-faring nations with a long and guilty history of colonial occupation and slavery, they are pro free-trade and have large financial service industries—RBS may even move its headquarters to Amsterdam. Both tend to view American power as benign; the Netherlands joined the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Shell, Unilever and Elsevier are just three examples of remarkably successful Anglo-Dutch joint ventures. I say “remarkably” because I’ve learned that in important respects, there is no culture more alien to the Dutch than the English (I focus on England as I’ve no experience with Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland). Echoing the Calvinist insistence on “being true to oneself,” the Dutch are almost compulsively truthful. Most consider politeness a cowardly form of hypocrisy. Bluntness is a virtue; insincerity and backhandedness are cardinal sins.

So let me try to be as Dutch as I can, and say that I left the UK feeling disappointed, hurt and immensely worried. We did not leave because of Brexit. My wife and I are both Dutch and we want our children to grow roots in the country where we came of age. We loved our time in London and have all met people who we hope will become our friends for life. But by the time the referendum came, I had become very much in favour of the UK leaving the EU. The worrying conditions that gave rise to the result—the class divide and the class fixation, as well as an unhinged press, combine to produce a national psychology that makes Britain a country you simply don’t want in your club.

I am terribly sorry for my pro-EU middle-class friends in England, and even more sorry for the poor who had no idea that by supporting Brexit they were voting to become poorer. But this is England’s problem, not the EU’s: the nation urgently needs some time alone to sort itself out. So when those first “Leave” votes came in, I found myself making fist pumps at the television.

On the morning of 24th June 2016 the middle-class parents at my children’s school were huddling together in shock over the result. One or two were crying quietly when a working-class mother I knew walked up to a well-to-do mother who had been canvassing for Remain. “OUT! OUT! OUT!”, she shouted as she wagged her index finger. Then she walked off in triumph, back to her working-class friends at the other end of the playground.

Over the years, I had learned she was a warm person, yet on that day something stronger burst out. She had used the referendum to try to smash that expensive middle-class toy called the EU and it had worked. At last, for the first time in decades, those who felt like life’s losers openly defied the winners, and carried an election. Now her country would have £350m a week to spend on the number one worry for people like her: the NHS.

(contd)

Mightybanhammer · 20/10/2017 22:50

National pride should be the least of our concerns right now but I utterly cringe when I contemplate what our urbane continental friends like you are thinking of us.

Mightybanhammer · 20/10/2017 22:52

Referring to the,writer of course, not lurking

HashiAsLarry · 20/10/2017 22:53

Just catching up on some stuff we've recorded. Got to the Anita Rani stuff on partition. It seems oddly familiar.

Someone has just said something along the lines of
you trust you family doctor for years and then he expresses his political view and his life is suddenly in danger

DH keeps looking at me as if to say maybe you're right to be worried. Doubt he will organise himself enough for us to leave though Sad

Badders08 · 20/10/2017 22:53

I am ashamed to be (half) English

Badders08 · 20/10/2017 22:54

Hashi
My dh is in total denial
He thinks I am mad talking about food shortages etc

HesterThrale · 20/10/2017 23:17

Badders has your DH seen this article? It's quite shocking: what would happen on Brexit day if we get no deal:

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.politico.eu/article/brexit-cliff-edge-no-deal-departure/amp/

^"Customs declarations at U.K. ports balloon to 255 million per year from the current 55 million, according to government figures.
As a result, long queues likely start to build up at entry points around the country. Fresh produce begins to rot as it waits for clearance and roads around major ports like Dover are gridlocked."^

Badders08 · 20/10/2017 23:21

As most of his firms business is non EU he just seems to have his head in the sand

HashiAsLarry · 20/10/2017 23:41

Ha badders I've spent so long dealing with dhs hoarding issues that I can't start that with him Blush. I'm very thankful that at school and through my gm I learned how to cook and sew, at least to a basic level in sewing. I'm trying to encourage mil to pass it on to dcs as they are so interested in her doing sewing projects. I think she thinks I'm taking the piss.

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2017 23:46

Walt Kowalski @ kowalskilawn
Trump revised an EO so he can recall any retired service member & any National Guard units into active service

Trump is planning to start a war then.

Brilliant.

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RedToothBrush · 21/10/2017 00:53

Oh yeah. Turns out this is two days after green card holders were banned from enlisting.

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frumpety · 21/10/2017 06:47

www.rt.com/news/407347-rt-guests-list-ngo/

Was flicking through the channels last night and came upon this channel , Larry King was on , anyway never watched it before , so watched for a little while and then the above story came on Hmm

Cailleach1 · 21/10/2017 08:10

'Christ, she’s hard work,' said Pot Plant One as Theresa left the room

John Crace can be funny sometimes. What an odd photo. Did she stay behind after everyone else had left? Or did she come early (and on her own) to take a photo before the discussions?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/20/theresa-may-brexit-speech-brussels-eu-pot-plants-sketch

Univer8 · 21/10/2017 08:45

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/polish-woman-addenbrookes-hospital-13781055

Heavily pregnant British woman told to prove she's from the UK to get NHS treatment - after taking Polish husband's surname
Emma Szewczak-Harris, 26, received a letter accusing her of not producing the documentation, despite her claim she'd never been asked for it in the first place

My ds had a rugby accident (broken bone) a few weeks ago. He was asked by several nurses which school he goes to. Is this normal HCP chit chat to engage with a young patient or something more sinister? DS was born here but I am Italian. Our surname is Italian and I have an accent. Does anyone on this thread have any experience with the NHS treating them differently due to being EU citizens? Thanks

Badders08 · 21/10/2017 08:54

Always been asked about schools when my kids have been to a and e
Not a new thing I don't think

frumpety · 21/10/2017 08:58

If I didn't have a photo driving licence , I would really struggle to fit the criteria for proof of identity , even though I was born here and have lived in the UK all my life . Do they just have someone who is sitting in an office , reading down a list of names , going 'that one sounds a bit foreign ' ?

frumpety · 21/10/2017 09:04

Also been asked about school when attending A&E with a school aged child , although that was a few years ago now .

HesterThrale · 21/10/2017 09:05

I think A and E might generally ask about schools in case they suspect the child has a suspicious injury and then they could contact the school.

Badders08 · 21/10/2017 09:14

Yeah
It's a safeguarding thing