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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'

979 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 18:09

Phil Hammond called the EU the enemy. Then retracted it. A classic political move, to pitch to one group and then say you didn't mean it after all.

This is the UK's negotiation strategy. Because the negotiation isn't really with the EU. Its the ongoing debate over the what leaving the EU actually means since it wasn't officially defined prior to the referendum and has been left to politicians to say its one thing to persuade people to support them and then decided no that's not really what they meant after all.

The whole thing makes it impossible for the EU to respond to us, because we don't appear to know what we want.

The EU have been explicit in their position. So things they can not do because of the limitations of trade rules and EU law. Its possible work arounds could be possible for some things - but certainly not all which too many Brexiteers fail to acknowledge.

And then there is the a50 deadline which is like a snake coiled around May's neck slowly strangling her. A self imposed screwing of our negotiating position. One that kills off our Brexit options and ups the stakes into a brinkmanship battle - not with the EU but between the hardlines and the sane. Its not even about remaining, though that option might well end up being the only option left on the table through our own folly, rather than out of EU malice.

The longer we take to work out what we want the higher the stake become and the more we destroy the foundations of our economy in the meantime, even if we do stay in.

We have only just noticed that we've lost money worth 25% of our GDP and we have no net assets anymore, when in early 2016 we had significant assets. Project Fear they said was wrong. Well was it?

We are flat broke as a nation.

Then there is the Great Repel Bill. The Bill was supposed to be in the Commons this week. It was delayed a week due to the sheer number of amendments. There are nearly a dozen with enough Tory rebels to make them stick. Including one for parliament to have a meaningful vote on what option we take - including no deal. If parliament rejected this, we would be left in a situation where we sure as hell better hope a50 is reversible or we could end up unlawfully leave the EU by accident!

And the Lords could be fun for the Repel Bill. The Labour whip has vowed to examine every amendment properly even if the commons don't. And they are free and within their rights to do so.

Still May could exit stage left. Or left with egg all over her face as she has to suck up to the 'enemy' for being such a tool for the last 18months, because she hasn't made progress on the negotiations that really matter. The Tory party ones.

Whichever way you cut it, you can be sure on only one thing: it will go to the wire for both. And possibly beyond with an eleventh hour extension to prevent chaos.

There are hints that the public mood might be changing. Not fast enough. Yet. Interest rates? A break in the triple lock? Phil's budget sure will be interesting. Especially as Brexiteers want money to prepare and protect us from a no deal scenario which they also tell us will be just fine and won't be a problem. Bye Bye NHS, don't get flu this winter. As a note once infamously said: 'There's no many left'.

We are Greece. Only worse. And out of pressure and deadlines we alone created. We just haven't realised it. Yet.

And if this doesn't make you cringe and brace yourself in horror:

Danny Kemp‏ @dannyctkemp
May wants to take the floor at EU summit dinner on Thursday to explain Brexit policy to fellow leaders, senior official says

Just remember her party speech and think: What could possibly go wrong...

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Motheroffourdragons · 20/10/2017 12:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Peregrina · 20/10/2017 12:44

I think it's important that everyone sees the Government response, and their dictatorial language. Whereas the answer should be "that we appreciate your concerns and will bear them in mind, blah de blah."

This takes you back to Amber Rudd's pretending not to understand the question about how long the mandate for Brexit lasts.

However, if it all helps to destroy the Tory party I will not shed any tears for them.

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2017 12:46

Sam Coates Times‏*@SamCoatesTimes*

YouGov/Times poll:
CON 40(+1),
LAB 42(nc),
LDEM 8(nc)

EU ref
Right to leave - 42%(nc)
Wrong to leave 45%(-2)

(Change since last week)

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HashiAsLarry · 20/10/2017 14:58

www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-41690920

Well this is reassuring to anyone of any Irish links Hmm

lonelyplanetmum · 20/10/2017 15:13

Apart from the contentious nature of finding and making amendments to assorted Irish birthplaces in Wikipedia, who in Parliament has time to do that presumably at the taxpayers expense?

HashiAsLarry · 20/10/2017 15:16

It's certainly far more worthy than actually finding a solution to solving the border issues, naturally. Shakes head vigorously

howabout · 20/10/2017 15:49

Loving that DexEU graphic Lurking. However the Scottish status is pretty much status quo since at least 1979. Grin

RandomlyGenerated · 20/10/2017 16:00

Lurking’s DExEu graphic has forgotten the Isle of Wight - will it be a secret EU enclave?

pointythings · 20/10/2017 16:04

Randomly it's the Isle of White according to one prominent Brexit supported on another thread. And there it is on the map - white. They were right!

RandomlyGenerated · 20/10/2017 16:20

pointy I saw that too, but put it down to autocorrect (just in case anyone might think I was casting aspersions). Maybe they were onto something?

howabout · 20/10/2017 16:42

Doubt it Randomly since Isle of Wight voted 62% Leave but the garlic farmer is thinking he might have to think again about selling coal to Newcastle.

They will lose out if the Boundary review doesn't go ahead as they were due to double their number of MPs (likely both Conservative). At present Bob Seely MP represents an electorate of 105,000.

(LibDem Alistair Carmichael MP has only 33,000 in Orkney and Shetland. SNP Angus MacNeil MP of the Western Isles takes the wooden spoon with an electorate of 21,000 and only 6,000 of them voted for him).

RandomlyGenerated · 20/10/2017 16:59

S’alright howabout, I was being tongue in cheek. I’m a bit too young to think about heading to the IoW just yet, although I like the idea of being able to use the world’s only year round hovercraft service.

pointythings · 20/10/2017 17:00

The IoW does have red squirrels though, not those forrin Yank grey ones.

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2017 17:21

Can we flog the Isle of Wight in the Brexit firesale?

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HashiAsLarry · 20/10/2017 17:25

@carolecadwalla

FINALLY... Chair of fake news inquiry @DamianCollins asks qs of Twitter re Brexit. Next up please:Facebook &Google

BUZZFEED

woman11017 · 20/10/2017 18:10

@jamesrbuk
SCOOP: A Suspected Network Of 13,000 Twitter Bots Pumped Out Pro-Brexit Messages In The Run-Up To The EU Vote
www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/a-suspected-network-of-13000-twitter-bots-pumped-out-pro?utm_term=.ix7K4nBgP#.rgWZ6zdD7

Duh.

pointythings · 20/10/2017 18:11

Red we could cub together and buy it, declare its independence and then rejoin the EU. Grin

pointythings · 20/10/2017 18:11

club, even. Bloody hell, haven't even had a glass of wine yet and my keyboard skills are toast.

HesterThrale · 20/10/2017 19:12

This paragraph is familiar to me. It's been in the response to every Govt. petition about Brexit I've signed, plus it was in the letter I received from my Tory MP when I wrote about Brexit last year.

They haven't changed their tune. But I think they might have to.

There must be no attempts to remain inside the European Union, no attempts to rejoin it through the back door, and no second referendum. The country voted to leave the European Union, and it is the duty of the Government to make sure we do just that.

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2017 19:21

Laura Kuenssberg @ bbclaurak
Justine Greening writes to Jeremy Corbyn demanding he personally condemn @labourlewis language + asking for action to tackle misogyny

Errr about your colleagues Justine...

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BiglyBadgers · 20/10/2017 20:25

I am assuming Justine Greening spends a lot of her time writing letters to May about Boris Johnson....

prettybird · 20/10/2017 20:39

I love the "must" in the DfExEU's response. Hmm

Since when did "advisory" = "mandatory" Confused?

Must be one of those irregular verbs Grin

....along the lines of "I brief, you leak, she breaks the Official Secrets Act" Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 20/10/2017 21:00

Labour MP Ben Bradshaw raising concern about Arron Banks / Dark Money

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/19/mp-calls-for-inquiry-into-arron-banks-and-dark-money-in-eu-referendum

He got his info mostly from this:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/adam-ramsay/how-did-arron-banks-afford-brexit

Astonishing delve into Banks’ murky financial history, his Leave links & donations

Aaron Banks donated about 9 millionto the Leave campaign - the largest ever UK political donation - around 10% of his estimated total worth. However, with his complex finances and offshore holdings, that could be a much lower %, or higher

Still looks disproportionate:
did anonymous “wellwishers” from abroad supply the money and / or he made a huge investment in disaster capitalism ?

frumpety · 20/10/2017 21:12

Bigchoc I am not sure if it will really matter if people are told the truth about where their fake news came from . Spent several hideous minutes today in a charity shop listening to a man spouting about how Merkel was the most dangerous German since Hitler , how our government would never back down to them , how it was all going to be marvellous for us , the Norwegians are going to be begging to lay a pipeline through our country to provide us with energy , how we have always managed before etc. etc. Was a teensy bit shocked when the volunteer working their responded with ' My Uncle was a POW in Germany and he said the only good German was a dead one ' , still , now , 70 bloody years later , I honestly thought we had got somewhere Shock

BigChocFrenzy · 20/10/2017 21:15

Qui Bono ? Who makes large profits from WTO Brexit ?

The effects of a hard Brexit would cause recession and crash the pound
Very wealthy individuals could simply increase their fortunes by short selling
Like Soros did with the pound, the 1992 ERM saga
< an earlier Tory cockup >
He built a massive short position in sterling, expecting it to fall below the lower band of the ERM, hence made over £1 billion profit by short selling

Qui Bono ?
Probably only the really wealthy can manage to short sterling
Think of all the billionaires around the world, the billionaires behind Trump, the Russian oligarchs behind Putin, our own vacuum-cleaner & pub chain billionaires Wink , media billionaires the 100-millionaires too.

I suspect mysterious individuals have already built similar huge short positions in sterling.
Hence the determination for a Brexit that will crash the UK and the hard right hostility towards EEA / EFTA, let alone Remainers

Other ways to profit
Just avoiding the 2019 EU tax directive which would close off some tax dodges used by the super-wealthy.

Also, any country or non-EU company might welcome the zero Uk tariffs and lowered standards that Brexit economist Minford and the hardcore Ultras want
Minford casually says that UK manufacturing, farming and agriculture would be replaced quickly by foreign imports
Those areas total about 8% of the workforce, btw