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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'

979 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 18:09

Phil Hammond called the EU the enemy. Then retracted it. A classic political move, to pitch to one group and then say you didn't mean it after all.

This is the UK's negotiation strategy. Because the negotiation isn't really with the EU. Its the ongoing debate over the what leaving the EU actually means since it wasn't officially defined prior to the referendum and has been left to politicians to say its one thing to persuade people to support them and then decided no that's not really what they meant after all.

The whole thing makes it impossible for the EU to respond to us, because we don't appear to know what we want.

The EU have been explicit in their position. So things they can not do because of the limitations of trade rules and EU law. Its possible work arounds could be possible for some things - but certainly not all which too many Brexiteers fail to acknowledge.

And then there is the a50 deadline which is like a snake coiled around May's neck slowly strangling her. A self imposed screwing of our negotiating position. One that kills off our Brexit options and ups the stakes into a brinkmanship battle - not with the EU but between the hardlines and the sane. Its not even about remaining, though that option might well end up being the only option left on the table through our own folly, rather than out of EU malice.

The longer we take to work out what we want the higher the stake become and the more we destroy the foundations of our economy in the meantime, even if we do stay in.

We have only just noticed that we've lost money worth 25% of our GDP and we have no net assets anymore, when in early 2016 we had significant assets. Project Fear they said was wrong. Well was it?

We are flat broke as a nation.

Then there is the Great Repel Bill. The Bill was supposed to be in the Commons this week. It was delayed a week due to the sheer number of amendments. There are nearly a dozen with enough Tory rebels to make them stick. Including one for parliament to have a meaningful vote on what option we take - including no deal. If parliament rejected this, we would be left in a situation where we sure as hell better hope a50 is reversible or we could end up unlawfully leave the EU by accident!

And the Lords could be fun for the Repel Bill. The Labour whip has vowed to examine every amendment properly even if the commons don't. And they are free and within their rights to do so.

Still May could exit stage left. Or left with egg all over her face as she has to suck up to the 'enemy' for being such a tool for the last 18months, because she hasn't made progress on the negotiations that really matter. The Tory party ones.

Whichever way you cut it, you can be sure on only one thing: it will go to the wire for both. And possibly beyond with an eleventh hour extension to prevent chaos.

There are hints that the public mood might be changing. Not fast enough. Yet. Interest rates? A break in the triple lock? Phil's budget sure will be interesting. Especially as Brexiteers want money to prepare and protect us from a no deal scenario which they also tell us will be just fine and won't be a problem. Bye Bye NHS, don't get flu this winter. As a note once infamously said: 'There's no many left'.

We are Greece. Only worse. And out of pressure and deadlines we alone created. We just haven't realised it. Yet.

And if this doesn't make you cringe and brace yourself in horror:

Danny Kemp‏ @dannyctkemp
May wants to take the floor at EU summit dinner on Thursday to explain Brexit policy to fellow leaders, senior official says

Just remember her party speech and think: What could possibly go wrong...

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Thread gallery
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woman11017 · 19/10/2017 21:26

math an article on Mercer, CA, Banks, Wigmore et al. Also a snippet about how they've got their sticky fingers into Catalonian 'independence'.
www.byline.com/column/67/article/1842?utm_content=bufferf61ec&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

HesterThrale · 19/10/2017 21:40

A depressing and scary view of the immediate effects of a no-deal Brexit on 9 areas, inc trade, health care, security, customs, air travel, the environment and citizenship. (I wish they'd mention the loss of EU citizenship rights for British people in these articles, as well as those of EU residents here. I feel very bitter about that loss.)

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.politico.eu/article/brexit-cliff-edge-no-deal-departure/amp/

woman11017 · 19/10/2017 21:45

Yes, Hester Next time there's a Monarch type airline bankruptcy, travellers will have to walk home.

Badders08 · 19/10/2017 22:01

Chortle
twitter.com/qikipedia/status/921118768532729856

prettybird · 19/10/2017 22:19

So are the financial companies "just bluffing"? Hmm

@lloydblankfein: Just left Frankfurt. Great meetings, great weather, really enjoyed it. Good, because I'll be spending a lot more time there. #Brexit

Apparently he doesn't tweet that often - so this tweet is definitely sending a pointed message. Wink

Also, did anyone else notice the way that Macron and Merkel appeared to hide their mouths à la doubles tennis players when they noticed the cameras as they were walking down the corridor talking to May?

prettybird · 19/10/2017 22:22

Sorry - meant to make it clear that Lloyd Blankfein is the CEO of Goldman Sachs. So an important member of soon to be ex London's financial community.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2017 23:24

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-deal-brexit-prepare-secret-11372932
The Tories have secretly been preparing for a no-deal Brexit since July
A bombshell cache of documents obtained by the Daily Mirror show Whitehall departments have secretly been working since the summer to get ready for a no deal scenario.

Failing to see how this is a shock. We know that there are papers relating to the consequences of a No Deal. That could well be called preparing for a no deal situation. However none of these departments have actually done much of actual substance as that would require hiring people and spending vast sums of money. Strikes me, they have just looked at the problem, come up with some ideas and just general shat their pants.

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RedToothBrush · 19/10/2017 23:31

www.ft.com/content/61c12868-b350-11e7-a398-73d59db9e399

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RedToothBrush · 19/10/2017 23:32

The six tribes of Brexit
Detailed year-long poll reveals nuanced picture of Leave and Remain camps

I note, I don't fit neatly with any group well.

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RedToothBrush · 19/10/2017 23:38

AFP news agency‏*@AFP*

#BREAKING Give me Brexit deal I can "defend" at home, May tells EU

Why?
Why should they help clean up our mess?

Especially after the insults you've thrown at them.

The stench of desperation is putrid.

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RedToothBrush · 19/10/2017 23:41

www.politico.eu/article/theresa-may-brexit-european-council-pleads-for-brexit-deal-we-can-defend-to-our-people/
Theresa May pleads for Brexit deal we can ‘defend to our people’
The British prime minister addressed EU leaders over dinner during the European Council summit.

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Motheroffourdragons · 19/10/2017 23:42

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2017 00:00

where do they get the audience for Question Time?

This is a question we have pondered for years.

There was the scandal over the producer who trawled facebook looking for Britain First / EDL members for the audience. She apparently was sympathetic.

The main philosophy of the show, is not to be representative but to 'make good telly' by getting as many controversial people on, so they just end up shouting at each other rather than having a debate.

Its not really a politics show. Its a reality tv show, with political activists. They are desperate for it to go all Jeremy Kyle, but it hasn't happened yet.

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prettybird · 20/10/2017 00:12

.....and therein is why I stopped watching #BBCQT Angry

thecatfromjapan · 20/10/2017 00:14

That is a brilliant summing up of QT, RTB.

I once called it 'the middle class version of Jeremy Kyle' but your 'reality show with political activists' completely hits the nail on the head.

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2017 00:24

Jonathan Portes‏*@jdportes*
Claim PM has privately committed to financial settlement of 40bn+ more significant, if true, than "No Deal" posturing.

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officerhinrika · 20/10/2017 01:18

Unfortunately caught John Redwood on the daily politics today. I cannot understand why he gets so much airtime for spouting nonsense. He was treated pretty robustly in interview, so he adopted the repeat and repeat while talking over everyone tactic in reply.
What it did do is spark a long discussion off between me and DS on agriculture. Redwood rather airily says that there will be a short period when food costs a lot but then British farmers will make up the £20 billion shortfall. According to DS GB production was £28billion for agriculture in 2014, that’s a hefty amount to make up. Also, where is all this fallow land waiting to be brought into production? Not round here in this rural area. Who is going to pick it? Maybe he’s suggesting industrial mega dairy set ups, factory pig units etc. now there won’t be any pesky EU animal welfare regulations. All well and good but what bank will be lending to farmers to set up this stuff now until things are clearer? Our final take was that Redwood is channelling the war, so all we need to do is centralise control of food production and distribution - Land girls and rationing, its really what leavers were after, life lived as an episode of Foyles War.
I’d really just prefer it if he wasn’t on the tv.

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2017 01:20

Laura kuenssberg @ bbclaurak
May apparently told EU leaders Florence was not the last word on the Brexit bill - important sign if true

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mathanxiety · 20/10/2017 03:18

JJ Patrick certainly thinks the world of his book... His assertion that Russian interference left, right and centre has been proven is false.

www.washingtonian.com/2016/06/29/five-questions-gerry-gunster-dc-strategist-brexit/ (Goddard Gunster) - an interview with Gunster.
'My role with Leave.EU was to provide strategic advice on the mechanics of running a referendum campaign. I brought them the methodology and the science behind how best to win, based on my experience of running many ballot measure campaigns here in the U.S.'

mathanxiety · 20/10/2017 03:20

Theresa May's Facebook letter is an insult to the intelligence of everyone concerned.

mathanxiety · 20/10/2017 04:05

Somerville - great news. I hope your DS wasn't too shaken by the incident.

Somerville · 20/10/2017 04:17

Thanks math. He's still riding high on adrenaline, (says he's now never getting a British passport, and wants to become a lawyer 😉) But I know in the longer term that it will sadly make him feel much less settled at his school.

My baby has a cold and can't sleep so I'm reading Irish newspapers on my phone and getting increasingly depressed. I don't see a route at the moment for continued peace and increased prosperity. Sad

mathanxiety · 20/10/2017 04:44

Me neither. There will come a point where the circle will have to be squared, and of course that is not possible.

frumpety · 20/10/2017 06:33

Pretty I noticed the hands hiding mouths malarkey too , looked really obvious that Macron noticed the press and started to do it and then Merkel joined in , weird !

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 20/10/2017 06:56

May's letter. I’m reminded of Shakespeare “brevity is the soul of wit” or tl;dr as he would have said these days. Couldn’t bring myself to dredge my way through it.

German trains. Alas my experience (accumulated over many visits and one extended stay) has been much less positive than BigChoc’s. Yes, the system as a whole works better than in the U.K., but I’ve experienced many delays, last minute platform alterations (which you only get to know about if you can understand German tannoy announcements) and a lack of cleanliness on some (particularly rural) services to boot. As the Germans themselves say, if you want German efficiency, go to Switzerland.

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