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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'

979 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 18:09

Phil Hammond called the EU the enemy. Then retracted it. A classic political move, to pitch to one group and then say you didn't mean it after all.

This is the UK's negotiation strategy. Because the negotiation isn't really with the EU. Its the ongoing debate over the what leaving the EU actually means since it wasn't officially defined prior to the referendum and has been left to politicians to say its one thing to persuade people to support them and then decided no that's not really what they meant after all.

The whole thing makes it impossible for the EU to respond to us, because we don't appear to know what we want.

The EU have been explicit in their position. So things they can not do because of the limitations of trade rules and EU law. Its possible work arounds could be possible for some things - but certainly not all which too many Brexiteers fail to acknowledge.

And then there is the a50 deadline which is like a snake coiled around May's neck slowly strangling her. A self imposed screwing of our negotiating position. One that kills off our Brexit options and ups the stakes into a brinkmanship battle - not with the EU but between the hardlines and the sane. Its not even about remaining, though that option might well end up being the only option left on the table through our own folly, rather than out of EU malice.

The longer we take to work out what we want the higher the stake become and the more we destroy the foundations of our economy in the meantime, even if we do stay in.

We have only just noticed that we've lost money worth 25% of our GDP and we have no net assets anymore, when in early 2016 we had significant assets. Project Fear they said was wrong. Well was it?

We are flat broke as a nation.

Then there is the Great Repel Bill. The Bill was supposed to be in the Commons this week. It was delayed a week due to the sheer number of amendments. There are nearly a dozen with enough Tory rebels to make them stick. Including one for parliament to have a meaningful vote on what option we take - including no deal. If parliament rejected this, we would be left in a situation where we sure as hell better hope a50 is reversible or we could end up unlawfully leave the EU by accident!

And the Lords could be fun for the Repel Bill. The Labour whip has vowed to examine every amendment properly even if the commons don't. And they are free and within their rights to do so.

Still May could exit stage left. Or left with egg all over her face as she has to suck up to the 'enemy' for being such a tool for the last 18months, because she hasn't made progress on the negotiations that really matter. The Tory party ones.

Whichever way you cut it, you can be sure on only one thing: it will go to the wire for both. And possibly beyond with an eleventh hour extension to prevent chaos.

There are hints that the public mood might be changing. Not fast enough. Yet. Interest rates? A break in the triple lock? Phil's budget sure will be interesting. Especially as Brexiteers want money to prepare and protect us from a no deal scenario which they also tell us will be just fine and won't be a problem. Bye Bye NHS, don't get flu this winter. As a note once infamously said: 'There's no many left'.

We are Greece. Only worse. And out of pressure and deadlines we alone created. We just haven't realised it. Yet.

And if this doesn't make you cringe and brace yourself in horror:

Danny Kemp‏ @dannyctkemp
May wants to take the floor at EU summit dinner on Thursday to explain Brexit policy to fellow leaders, senior official says

Just remember her party speech and think: What could possibly go wrong...

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Motheroffourdragons · 19/10/2017 13:11

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Badders08 · 19/10/2017 13:17

Polish PM Making it very clear
twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/920960644484038656

LurkingHusband · 19/10/2017 13:25

If we are going to start producing more food, shouldn't we be getting that started now?

We're not and that's that.

Even if the political will existed (it doesn't) we don't have the skills required on the scale required. And that's before we deal with landowners who would rather have a nuclear power station on their land than an actual working farm.

Agriculture in the UK has always been portrayed as some sort of romantic idyll (I blame Wordsworth) for the gentry to wax lyrical about around a roaring fire, as they sup French Champagne. And as far as the landed classes are concerned, a nice Constable is the closest their land will ever get "working" (perish the thought).

Much of the raw fruit and veg we buy is already so insipid as to be almost indistinguishable anyway Sad

prettybird · 19/10/2017 13:27

So was the Prime Minister of Luxemburg on the BBC lunchtime news. He also seemed bemused that the UK still didn't "get" that the EU had made clear the 3 areas that needed to be sorted - or at least on which there had been agreed sufficient progress - before talks could progress to trade.

Peregrina · 19/10/2017 13:45

As far as food goes, we need to think back to the war years, and what was available then i.e. food which couldn't come from the occupied continent and either had to be home grown or had to risk dangerous sea crossings if from elsewhere. The war time diet was considered to be fairly sound in nutritional terms, but was I believe, extremely monotonous.

Peregrina · 19/10/2017 13:51

I have just logged onto Theresa May's facebook page, to add my two pennyworth. I see that Corbyn and Cable had already beaten me to it, and were scathing about what she had offered.

woman11017 · 19/10/2017 13:51

John Redwood on daily politics saying we will grow more food and buy oranges from SA
You know who helped fund Leave in South Africa?

LurkingHusband · 19/10/2017 14:09

As far as food goes, we need to think back to the war years, and what was available then i.e. food which couldn't come from the occupied continent and either had to be home grown or had to risk dangerous sea crossings if from elsewhere. The war time diet was considered to be fairly sound in nutritional terms, but was I believe, extremely monotonous.

It also had to feed a much smaller population as - conveniently - quite a lot of the huge calorie guzzling men were out of the country at the time. Bloody shirkers.

Anyway, I'm still wondering why the unsold food in the world isn't more of a bigger story. It must be unsold, because if it wasn't, and is being sold elsewhere, then the UK would simply have to start paying market value. Which - having doubled the market by leaving the EU - will I suspect rise.

Are there no economists sanity-checking leave pronouncements now ? Because the first sign a minister is on their way out used to be when their media minders stopped keeping foot from mouth Hmm

LurkingHusband · 19/10/2017 14:27

More control not coming back the the UK

www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/19/f35_fighter_engines_turkey_overhaul/

Britain’s F-35B fighter jets currently cost around $123m each – and British officials are quite content that the only engine overhaul facility for the stealth aircraft’s engines is located in Turkey.

(contd).

Notice we have to have the engines fixed where Lockheed say.

woman11017 · 19/10/2017 14:47

^How did Arron Banks afford Brexit?
The self-styled ‘bad boy’ who bankrolled the Leave campaign appears to have exaggerated his wealth. So how did he pay for his Brexit spree^?

Banks’s finances seem to have had a remarkable recovery in early 2014. But based on a full review of all the publicly available information about his companies, it is unclear where this money could have come from.

Crucially, October 2014 also marked the time Banks began his extraordinarily lavish political spending campaign, with his first £1 million pledge to the United Kingdom Independence Party.

Interestingly, our review of Banks' business empire also shows a huge cross-over between the key figures in Leave.EU and Banks’ businesses. Leave.EU’s Chief Executive Officer Liz Bilney serves on the board of numerous Banks’ companies

How Banks could afford to give so lavishly remains a mystery. There is no doubt that Banks did more than most to make Brexit happen – the question is, how could he afford it?

www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/adam-ramsay/how-did-arron-banks-afford-brexit

One of the authors of this article Alistair Sloan is writing a biography of Michael Gove.

Cailleach1 · 19/10/2017 15:10

Glad that worry is off your mind, Somerville. Wonder who or what part of the org. of the school came up with it in the first place.

I'm not surprised at anything, anymore. You won't hear someone disputing the cold hard facts of Sikorski. They will just say it is project fear from an elite for their own interests. Not like the peeps behind Brexit, then.

Isn't/wasn't Banks an honorary Consul representing Belize in the UK? It was in some interview with him. I can't find a direct link right now.

uk.businessinsider.com/millionaire-ukip-donor-arron-banks-belize-olympics-2016-8

Motheroffourdragons · 19/10/2017 15:15

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2017 15:31

John Schindler @20committee (ex-US intelligence)
Nothing to see here, folks.....nothing at all.
www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/adam-ramsay/how-did-arron-banks-afford-brexit
How did Arron Banks afford Brexit?

I think Mr Schindler seems to be suggesting there is some washing going on...

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*

NEW: EU Council Member, Malta PM Muscat tells @skynews: "pretty clear there will not be an agreement on the wording of sufficient progress"

Unfortunately that also brings me to this story we haven't talked about and should:

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/16/malta-car-bomb-kills-panama-papers-journalist
Malta car bomb kills Panama Papers journalist
Daphne Caruana Galizia, a blogger whose investigations focused on corruption, was described as a ‘one-woman WikiLeaks’

What is so bad in the Panama Papers? Just how many PM/Presidents are caught up in them?

MEPs have previously called for Muscat to resign over his involvement and Iceland had a big scandal over the papers.

It certainly makes you question who would go that far to stop that journalist, and makes you wonder just what secrets are hidden and who doesn't want you to know about them.

When do those laws on EU Tax Avoidance come into force again? March 2019? Just who has something to hide and to what extent will they go to, to keep it that way? Would it affect our ability to get an extension to a50?

You can't help wondering about it all. Conspiracy theory? No idea. But these are two men who have bad smells about money following them.

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LurkingHusband · 19/10/2017 15:40

Unfortunately that also brings me to this story we haven't talked about and should:

um, I mentioned it the day it happened, and asked if we needed to be checking under our cars Sad.

Cailleach1 · 19/10/2017 15:41

May, Gove, Davis, disgraced former minister Liam Fox, Johnson who lost previous jobs twice for lying, Penny Mordaunt (who lied about UK's veto on TV), Redwood (who lied about WTO re UK and rest of world trade), Bone, Blunt, Jenkins, Cash, Villiers make me want to look away for my own sanity. I'll always remember Jon Snow giving Villiers a grilling about what could happen in NI after the referendum. I wondered why nobody did it before the referendum. This is not a complete list, by the way.

That was all just remembered on foot of post of actively looking at Mays FB page.

Did anyone see Clare Fox a while back on the Daily Politics. When it was mentioned that leaving the EU might make ordinary people less powerful, she said it wouldn't. But it does get rid of another method of taking the gov't to court. I disagree with her on that. wrt pension rights a relative of mine raised an issue about a pension which they were due but an EU gov't department disputed. It was due according to EU regulations, but these had not been implemented. They did get the pension without an EU case, but some office in Brussels were in contact with him about it.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2017 15:43

Banks has connections to

Diamond mines in SA
Andy Wigmore is the Belize connection. He's also part of Leave.EU. He was a Belizean diplomat.
Panama Papers
Offshore business inn Gibraltar
Donald Trump
Ex-Wife previously accused of being a Russian Spy

Ian Flemming would be proud.

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Cailleach1 · 19/10/2017 15:51

A gov't department of a member state of the EU disputed the entitlement. To be clear!

Cailleach1 · 19/10/2017 15:52

There was definitely something in the interview about him being an honorary Consul. Maybe it was to Wales. Can't remember.

Cailleach1 · 19/10/2017 15:54

Maybe it was under one of his aliases.

woman11017 · 19/10/2017 15:59

Ian Flemming would be proud.
Although he started his career selling vacuum cleaners in Basingstoke. Grin < no offence to Basingstoke>

Banks' unexplained financial good fortune occurred in 2014. When the 'Leave' campaign was in its infancy? Timing. Hmm

Daphne Galizia is the fourth eminent investigative woman journalist to be killed round the world in the last four years. Panama papers, tax exile status for UK; Jezza is openly contesting the idea of UK as tax haven. As BCF said earlier, I hope he is well protected, I presume he's too obvious a target.

woman11017 · 19/10/2017 16:03

'last few years' not four years.

woman11017 · 19/10/2017 16:11

@evanoconnell
Stellar @UKLabour MP @BenBradshaw calls for inquiry into Arron Banks and #Russia ties in #Brexit referendum

LurkingHusband · 19/10/2017 16:23

Jezza is openly contesting the idea of UK as tax haven. As BCF said earlier, I hope he is well protected, I presume he's too obvious a target.

I believe leader of the opposition has Special Branch protection (DC did when he visited DSs school. At least 2 were armed under their suits.)

HesterThrale · 19/10/2017 16:31

Five EU Prime Ministers listening to JC's speech, at least!
There were none in Florence for TM's, I believe. A bit galling for her...

LurkingHusband · 19/10/2017 16:35

Five EU Prime Ministers listening to JC's speech, at least! There were none in Florence for TM's, I believe. A bit galling for her...

She had nothing new she could say. Why waste time ? Whereas they probably are keen to hear from the horses mouth what their options might be in a few months time.

Rather pleasingly, the BBC have ignored it, which suggests it's actually quite important. Their default position at the moment seems to be the less that's actually happened, the more coverage it deserves. As the gushing stories about "encouraging progress" from Merkel would seem to show.

Of course the danger of publicising Corbyns trip is that it underscores (a) that he is being listened to and (b) that he actually has some power here.

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