Where have all the Brexiters gone?

[MsHooliesCardigan]

Just that really. 52% voted to leave. I know Mumsnet isn't completely representative of the electorate but you would expect at least a few people to be banging the Brexit drum. The ones that were quite vocal seem to have lost their voice. Perhaps they're just bored with the whole thing but their silence really is deafening.

What is there to discuss?
It comes down to a simple point : EU or not.

I've moved a bit round in Europe and elsewhere. Mostly before the EU morphed into being. I still can't buy in to an EU identity and political structure. As a voter this was a one off chance to shift the course of the supertanker. That's why the turnout was high.

Now you can argue that people like me ought not be allowed to vote. I might even agree that democracy has the potential to be a right pain.

Yes I agree Bear I can be a bit annoying too. I don’t really say anything other than ‘Brexit means Brexit’ because what else is there to say

Heaps. How to address the issues now facing us for one - transition deal, trade deal, divorce payment, Irish border, EU citizens status.

You must have something to say about this as obviously you thought all this through before you voted, right?

Can I ask you though how you think the EU will look in 20 years?

Obviously no one can answer that for definite but it would evolve, with us having a seat at the table, having vetoes, shaping the changes.

This cliff edge approach is utter madness.

Ireland and Luxembourg have their tech industries crippled by the overstepping EU tax police

Or, to put it another way, have it pointed out to them that they really ought to be paying proper taxes.

MsHooliesCardigan
I voted leave knowing things would be difficult for a few years, maybe even 10 years. Leaving the EU was never going to be easy, untangling ourselves from decades of bureaucracy, with people who don’t want to make this easy for us for obvious reasons. If Brexit is a success what signals does that give to the rest of the EU?
I haven't got a single regret in voting leave because I’m confident it’s the best decision for our country.
I do understand though why some remainers are still unhappy ( actually, I’m not sure I am ? - how can you be unhappy about something you don’t know the outcome of? ) be unhappy in 10 years time when we’re certain of things - but now? )

Part and parcel of the same thing

Well answer the question wrt the complications of the process post-vote then, you’ve covered the EU angle already.

Part and parcel of the same thing.

No it's not.

The complications of leaving revolve around the fact we want the same benefits without paying for them and have done fuck all in planning for any alternative.

You might have convinced yourself that it's the complexities of the EU that are causing the problem but that isn't the case.

WTO rules mean we cannot have preferential terms once we are outside the Single Market.

I hate the term "divorce payment"

This is not a divorce, for a start, all divorces have a starting point of an equal position - then it is taken from there. We are not equal with the EUssr.

No it's not

(Agreed).

Call it what you like - how do you think the payment issue will be resolved M4Dad?

Cardinal I think you're wasting your time. There was one poster, I can't remember her name, who did actually make a very detailed eloquent argument for Brexit.
I didn't agree with her but her posts did make me think.
People have compared Brexit to a religion and, as an atheist, I find trying to debate with Brexiters just as pointless as trying to debate with fundamentalist Christians. Anything you ask them about the lack of evidence for God's existence or how they explain evil or evolution is just answered with 'Jesus loves you' or 'God is great' along with some quote from the bible.
Brexiters' have their own equivalent lines to 'God is great' which are usually something about sovereignty, making our own laws, Brussels bureaucrats, taking back control or bendy bananas.
I notice that some of the Brexiters take the piss out of the WestministerEnders threads - probably because they're full of people who are intelligent and incredibly well informed rather than just spewing out sound bites and slogans.

Can I ask you though how you think the EU will look in 20 years?

I left the UK to live in continental Europe 20 years ago. In that time, surprisingly little has changed - enlargement to the east (a process that was driven by the UK), the Euro, and some fairly minor changes to the way that free movement works.

20 years is not a long time in international diplomacy and trade; I would expect even less radical change in the next 20 years. I don't think we will see any additional members though it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Norway and Scotland will join (changing little, since one is currently in the EEA and the other currently in the EU as part of the UK). We may see some reform in the euro zone, but this isn't especially relevant to the UK anyway, and one would also expect based on current trends to see a narrowing of standard of living differences between the big Northern European economies, all of which are growing relatively slowly, and the peripheral economies which are experiencing stronger growth.

Obviously no one can answer that for definite but it would evolve, with us having a seat at the table, having vetoes, shaping the changes.

So you are happy to leave the way it works and evolves to the people in power but you won't give people who voted leave the same courtesy. It was never our job to figure that out.

M4Dad, you can ask anything you like.

Purits, I don't think any of the Tories/Lib Dems/Labour are right at the moment. I agree with the Lib Dems in that we shouldn't leave the EU, but I have no idea what your point is.

The evidence about what life is going to be like in the future strongly suggests we're all going to be much poorer (except TM's disaster capitalists), and the country is going to be sidelined and considered less important globally. Why, what's your evidence that it's going to be everlasting cake on sunlit uplands?

TatianaLarina
M4dad will never actually answer your question. He never does.

WTO rules mean we cannot have preferential terms once we are outside the Single Market.

So? Other countries from around the world manage to trade with the EU without being part of the Single Market. Unbeievably, other countries manage to trade with each other despite neither being in the EU!
Why do you think that being in the EU is so wonderful? It hasn't expanded our horizons, it has shrunk them. Any business wants more customers, not fewer. Tying yourself too much to one big customer is a recipe for disaster.

So you are happy to leave the way it works and evolves to the people in power but you won't give people who voted leave the same courtesy. It was never our job to figure that out.

That post makes no sense to me baroness, what do you mean?

Cardinal Sin

Why do we need a political union to be able to trade with other European countries? Why can't we just have a trade union?

So you are happy to leave the way it works and evolves to the people in power but you won't give people who voted leave the same courtesy

'the people in power' are voted in or out BY US.

OUR PM – as elected by us, or at least whose party is – sits on the EU Council.

We have MEPs. You can write to them just as you can write to your Westminster or other UK MPs.

This idea of 'the EU' as being somehow separate from a member state's government and population continues to baffle me.

M4dad will never actually answer your question. He never does

What a load of rubbish.

purits, could you explain why you think it's no problem that we won't have the terms we have now?

I've never said we couldn't trade with the EU, clearly we still can but on hugely disadvantaged terms compared to now.

Could you tell us why you think that having tariffs and customs checks etc on all the goods to and from our closest and biggest trading partner warrants nothing more than a 'so'?

I simply mean that it isn't our job to figure out how it will work, that wasn't the question the referendum asked.

World Bank view of no Deal/WTO option

We're still here. We're The Secret People.
Like Tory voters, there's more of us than you but we keep quiet and let the ballot box speak for us.

Call it what you like - how do you think the payment issue will be resolved M4Dad

Personally speaking I don't think we should pay anything. We've given half a trillion pounds to the EU Project.

However, the EU are skint and us leaving is going to leave a massive hole in their budget so it's no wonder they are playing hard ball. I think we should give them a nominal amount and if they don't like it we should just leave the talks and take a hard brexit.