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Brexit

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?

970 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/10/2017 12:32

And so the Zombie PM lives on.

Some might say that the Tory Party conference has been the thing that has really killed her, with one more blow needed to the head.

But had she already lost the battle within the party?

What is curious is how its now the hard liners who have got behind May. Why is this? They did so BEFORE the conference, not after May's speech. They are not known for suffering those they see as weak. They are there for target practice. Why have leopards seemingly changed their spots?

The truth is that just before and after her Florence speech Boris Johnson repeatedly undermined her and showed his authority was superior to May's. He may have backed down publically, but May backed down with policy, doing u-turns on her 'concessions' to the EU. Johnson was leading May and the Tory Party and not the other way around. That's what the conference was about and May's bad luck just played to their agenda.

May could be likened to the elderly Hindenburg, desperately trying to cling to power, and trying to appease the far right on the advise of von Papen who thought it could be controlled and contained. Whilst the right push it further and further, after each concession to them which they take as weakness, for their own political gain and shot at power. What would a successful far right leader in this country have to look like? A cut price Churchill pushing the values of fake patriotism? The historical parallel isn't hard to find and to fit to the political reality of today.

The irony emerging is that the EU Commission is starting to look like its more on our side than the EU27, tired of our nonsense and insults.

In this situation there can be no deal. Unless something drastic happens we are headed directly for a state of emergency.

The much forgotten and equally important dealing over the WTO is going as badly as the EU one. What do we expect with Liam Fox in charge and next to no accountability from the press or from parliament?

The hard right, obviously are making the calculated gamble that they have seized the hostage May away from the Liberals who had started to get her to see the reality. They will now do what they can to protect her, and support her. Afterall, why would you challenge her, if you felt you could control her? They have the perfect scapegoat and can protect their own political hides for the time being.

The most obvious sign of this, is Gove leaping to her defence in a way that is so ridiculously over the top.

The hard right have nothing to fear from a chaotic exit. Indeed they have much to profit from it. And they always have the means to leave if it gets too bad. They fear staying in the EU. Why IS that? Its almost as if many of them have something to hide...

Grants Shapp's intervention, is beginning to look like he was set up, with it being leaked that he was leading calls for a leadership election privately and had no intention of doing so publically until outted. The effect has been it has shored up her position, making it harder for May to even to resign either for personal or political reasons. It also casts any dissenters as 'traitors' whilst the hard right casts the image of the 'loyalists'.

Of course the hard right's gamble also rests on three other things; they know they are starting to lose the argument, they have done the maths and don't think they will have the numbers to ensure a hard right candidate makes the final two in a leadership battle and they think they can control the rest of the party because they fear Corbyn more.

Perhaps the best chance we have for a deal now does lie in a collapse of the government in the near future. This seems to be the position that the EU are taking by stepping up talks with Labour.

Just how much will Tory Liberals act in the best interests of the country and stand up to the hard right of the party. They have the numbers to get things through with Labour. But Labour want the government to collapse, so the balance of power ultimately relies on the hard right's support. Its hard to envisage Labour stepping up in the national interest any more than the Tory Right compromising.

I suspect the Hard Right ultimately fear the EU more than Corbyn. If a collapse happens it will be because the hard right will not compromise and they are prepared to push their luck on that, and this is the weapon they have over May. I suspect they figure they have little to lose by pursuing this direction. Its do or die for them anyway.

Of course what happens at home and what happens in the EU talks are also different things. The UK could well be promising more than they say at home, and this seems to be the case. But the infighting at home, jeopardises a deal even if one is reached by the EU commission as our diplomatic appearance through our antics and rhetoric at home, will convince the EU27 to reject it, and any compromise. Another gamble the Tory Right might be keen on to win over the domestic audience with their faux patriotism.

Of course, May could simply resign... She won't. She's a politician who lacks self awareness and arrogant in her own political ambition. A bit of a pep talk about how great she is and how she is doing things right and she believes it, as she is totally disconnected from the reality of things as the election proved in all its glory. She only listens to voices she agrees with...

So the Zombie PM lead by the De Facto PM will limp on. Its a game of chicken over who will lead to a collapse of government now between the liberals and the hard right.

At least for now. A leadership election is what is wanted by the press but not the party. The media want the drama more than the Tories.

If it hasn't changed within a month or so, the moment may have passed and it might be too late to salvage anything, such is the damage being done to our diplomatic relations. Start prepping in serious by Christmas, if we are still headed this way.

Please tell me, my reading of the situation is wrong...

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LurkingHusband · 15/10/2017 18:16

.Vauxhall (was US, now French)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41627237

Vauxhall is cutting about 400 jobs at its Ellesmere Port car plant due to falling sales.
The carmaker, now owned by France's PSA Group - maker of Peugeot and Citroen - is "facing challenging European market conditions," a spokesman said.

(contd)

Badders08 · 15/10/2017 18:17

I'm waiting for Toyota to pull out of derby....

Holliewantstobehot · 15/10/2017 18:22

I'm looking forward to the pictures of Jacob Rees mogg feeding one of his kids chlorinated chicken a la John Gummer.

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?
LurkingHusband · 15/10/2017 18:29

So they are making it a desert, and calling it "Brexit" ?

Since it was such a glorious day, MrsLH and I decided to head out to Tintern Abbey for no particular reason other than "it's there".

On the way, I was struck by how the route takes you from England to Wales to England to Wales again on the same road. Probably the closest you can get in this country to driving around Europe where you can drift in and out of countries without realising.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2017 18:37

Bojo has been sacked twice, for telling serious lies:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-are-we-so-surprised-that-boris-johnson-lied-when-he-s-been-sacked-for-lying-twice-before-a7105976.html

Only in this Brexit chaos could such a dishonest, rude, racist person be Foreign Secretary, one of the great offices of state
If he becomes PM, we may see if a country die of embarrassment

Maybe he'd then get sacked a 3rd time for lying - sacked by the voters

pointythings · 15/10/2017 18:50

Maybe DD was thinking about Lotus?
(Am close to Norfolk, the plant is signposted off the A11)

I don't want to drive a Morgan, a Lotus or a TVR. No bloody boot space and I have teenagers and archery kit to think about.

Holliewantstobehot · 15/10/2017 18:52

Everything's so strange at the moment. Starting with the referendum lies, trumps fake news etc; truth and evidence not mattering anymore. An advisory referendum with a split result is taken to mean hard Brexit, when in reality, that combined with TM's failed hard Brexit mandate election, should surely be seen as a need to compromise on a soft Brexit. It's like they're all sat there with their fingers in their ears, humming so they can't hear anything that contradicts their view. The forecast reports they won't release are probably hidden in the back of the drawer like a credit card bill you don't want to face.

Badders08 · 15/10/2017 18:54

Strange times indeed

artisancraftbeer · 15/10/2017 19:25

I think tvr are bankrupt again. It happens a lot, but this time it's more permanent. Lotus is now Chinese owned - a subsidiary of geely.

We'll all be driving Morgans!

artisancraftbeer · 15/10/2017 19:25

While eating artisan jam and drinking craft beer.

Badders08 · 15/10/2017 19:29

Ah yes "artisan" = middle class people making things working class people used to make
😕

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2017 19:50

Even experts keep finding new problems noone had thought of .....

The latest:
The Uk needs new agreements to continue to obtain the extra electricity required over winter from the continent.
Otherwise, Xmas 2019 will be cold and maybe power cuts

JDD on R North's blog today http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86636

"Richard and I have discussed this and I have done some more research in the relevant Department

The Electricty interconnectors that we currently have and use extensively are governed under EU regulations
Obviously those regs are dead on leaving
So what do we do when we need power during the winter as we always do?"

That's along with oil & petrol costing more, because imports have to be paid in dollars, with the pound Sterling likely to fall further with a hard Brexit.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2017 20:05

Reliance on energy imports:

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?
pointythings · 15/10/2017 20:12

Ah, but BCF if you only BeLeave we can power the UK with rainbow unicorn farts!

TheElementsSong · 15/10/2017 20:15

So what do we do when we need power during the winter as we always do?

We keep warm with our feelings of Sovereignty and Control?

Holliewantstobehot · 15/10/2017 20:46

When DS gets stressed (ASD) he calms down by using the kindle or watching TV. Am hoping some Brexiters are going to come and calm him down when we have no electric. I am also not in a good mood as he has not slept for two nights in a row now and I am shattered. Off to try and get him to bed now. Wish me luck.

mathanxiety · 15/10/2017 21:29

So within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU

So David Davis did not understand that one of the major reasons a country would want to trade with the UK was access to the EU market? And he didn't understand that nobody would want to talk to the UK before they knew how much access there would be?

QuentinSummers · 15/10/2017 21:35

Huh bigchoc. Liam Fox is also someone with questionable morals and it seems not to have affected his career. I'm in his constituency, totally baffled as to who votes for the utter fuckwit

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2017 22:40

One of many nasty & unforeseen effects of Brexit is that politicians like Fox and Bojo are ppointed to govt, when they should have been thrown out of public life in disgrace
And then we have incompetent nonentities like May and DD, promoted 3 levels above their capability

Fox the disgrace

Keep repeating the "disgraced former defence secretary" whenever you refer to Fox

Remind people locally that Fox brought his dear friend Adam Werrity on 18 overseas ministerial trips
gave him improper access to the MOD
Werrity was financed by murky rightwing venture capitalists and the Israeli govt lobbying org for the specific purpose of gaining access to the highest levels of British govt and defence

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/02/less-shameless-world-liam-fox-s-career-would-have-ended-2011
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/10/09/liam-fox-resignsnn_1002156.html

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2017 23:23

Front page of Torygraph.

Global banks and international bond strategists have been left stunned by revised ONS figures showing that Britain is £490bn poorer than had been assumed and no longer has any reserve of net foreign assets, depriving the country of its safety margin as Brexit talks reach a crucial juncture.

A massive write-down in the UK balance of payments data shows that Britain's stock of wealth - the net international investment position - has collapsed from a surplus of £469bn to a net deficit of £22bn. This transforms the outlook for sterling and the gilts markets. "Half a trillion pounds has gone missing. This is equivalent to 25pc of GDP." said Mark Capleton, UK rates strategist at Bank of America.

Making matters worse, foreign direct investment (FDI) by companies is plummeting. It fell from a £120bn surplus in the first half 2016 to a £25bn deficit over the same period this year.

Translation: we are flat broke and fucked.

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?
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RedToothBrush · 15/10/2017 23:26

Sorry, my mistake. Front page of the business section of the Torygraph.

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Peregrina · 15/10/2017 23:31

So more austerity then for us plebs, whilst the rich will still be given incentives.....

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2017 23:35

You what Project Fear said would happen? Well its seems we were too optimistic about Brexit...

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RedToothBrush · 15/10/2017 23:36

Bye bye nhs...

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Cailleach1 · 15/10/2017 23:43

BBC News again, tonight. No report on Brexit. However, they had a professor from Birmingham who was on a report about Vauxhall laying off people. He said that Brexit had some impact. The loss in value of sterling made things more expensive to bring in. The uncertainty. The BBC anchor must have been told in her earpiece to deflect talk of Brexit. She said something like it will be better soon and things will improve and there would be other jobs. The Prof. wasn't playing ball. He said there would need to be a FTA. She then must have been told to divert as she asked something about what type of new car.

Also, Sunday Politics. She had a bit of a go at Keir Starmer saying the deal should give all the benefits of the Single Market and Customs that we have now. She started saying how that was going against the will of the people if they voted against a 'deal' which would deliver less. Keir back in says that is what David Davis explicitly stated and leaving the single market and customs union was nowhere on the ballot paper.

Later, John Longworth was let bs on. The UK will have all the benefits but none of the obligations. Like a pirate. Take away the regulations, reduce the CAP payments, take down the tariffs, go onto WTO. Sounds like a great place, doesn't it? The business guy on with him said he was in the UK for the single market. WTO would take years to negotiate. Reminds me when Pascal Lamy was on with Andrea Leadsom a while back. She started going on the same way. We will take away all the tariffs. Lamy looked a bit puzzled. If you don't have any tariffs on imports, what will you negotiate as you will have given everything away already. She just smiled at him and said yes, that is right. I think he knew they were cuckoo, at that point.

Paraphrased totally a little bit. And sequence may be out of order. Blush . The gist is all there, though.