Westminstenders: Beano or Bust

[RedToothBrush]

The last week has seemingly been eventful but not in the way that's on the surface.

It's what's going on behind the scenes and the little comments in less high profile speeches that's more telling.

On the one hand the Norths think the May speech is a laying down "an offer" that the EU can not accept, in order to set up a no deal situation.

On the other hand Telegraph Journalist Peter Foster thinks there things going on in Brussels with the EU set to compromise in someway and help May present a deal acceptable to the British. You have to wonder whether the "presentational" stuff is about a deal to essentially be in the EU but not in the EU. A Brexit Existing in A Name Only. Beano.

It's difficult to tell, and it will come down to brinkmanship over timing. For both a deal and for the Repel Bill as the two sides in parliament try to push things to their limit for their own ends.

In this vacuum of uncertainty CBI and their "arch enemies" the TUC have put out a joint statement saying no deal is nuts and will screw every one and the way EU cits have been treated has been dreadful.

As it stands it does look like May is serious about a deal and Davis is also acting in this way. Johnson and Hannan have launched their Institute for Free Trade (at the foreign office breaking ministerial code, but hell there's no consequences these days anyway cos May dare not let Johnson off the Brexit hook) in retaliation to try and retell the Brexit story as always being about free trade rather than racist. Unfortunately leavers seem to have bust that by admitting they are considerably more racist than Remainers by their own admission.

Then there's Trump and Bombardier. Just as Brexiteers are pushing for this closer relationship with the US in trade, despite May personally lobbying Trump he fucks her over slapping 220% tariff on Bombardier and putting the future of 4000 jobs at risk. This was inevitable as Trump fucks everyone for his own gain. The US won't ride to the aid of the British capitalists. They'll just eat them alive.

This week sees an important vote by the European Parliament on Brexit red lines. One of the votes states that the UK has to either stay in the customs union and internal market or NI has to have a special arrangement and stay in the customs union and the internal market in order to protect the EUs border integrity. Neither is compatible with what the Cons and the DUP have said they want.

It's also the Tory Party conference.May's big speech, in which she must throw red meat to the swivel eyed loons on right, is on Weds. There are of course, no debates at ConParty because, well, they can't behave like good little children without supervision. Instead the conference is to, erm... yeah we'll find out next week.

Any idea of the numbers Swedish? There is absolutely nothing on the main news about it.

I asked a policeman, who didn't know, but said they thought/expected 30 to 50,000.

Mel Kanerek @ melkanerek
I don't know who this is, but kudos for showing up #StopBrexitManchester #toriesagainstbrexit

Just to stress: This is a photo of a Tory protesting against the Tories at the Tory Party Conference.

Monarch had problems last year too, before Brexit.

But if we see Brexit as an ebbing tide ... then the most vulnerable will be the first to go.

If you are paying in dollars and being paid primarily in sterling, in a business ferrying people into Europe, it's possible you'd be first against the wall ....

Or, to put it another way .... would Monarch be in trouble if we hadn't had Brexit ?

G M Police‏Verified account @gmpolice 3h3 hours ago

#PeoplesAssembly march has now finished. People are gathering in Piccadilly Gardens. Estimated 30,000 turned out for marches #OpProtector

Thousands of people protesting against Brexit in Manchester and not a mention on BBC news. Laura K alluded to some alleged violence on the anti-austerity march but unable to back up this assertion.
The anti Brexit march was certainly good humoured and peaceful.

Daniel Hannan = Union Jack pom pom boy

Lurking ' Too late ' thing , is it from a hymn ? or trawling through the slightly inebriated mists of my memory from a poem about a small child being eaten by some zoo animal ?

I thought it was from "The Boy Stood On The Burning Deck".
But it wasn't.

It's not the Lion and Albert either!

Protests don't often make it onto the news because they're not very newsworthy. "X thousand people turned up in opposition to Y" is pretty much all that can be said.

It may come from a biography of Lord Randolph Churchill by Winston Churchill:
books.google.co.uk/books?id=BVVOAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT301&lpg=PT301&dq=the+awful+cry+too+late&source=bl&ots=G_j7Q7OhHx&sig=-hVw7205csP8EmuV3EAPrVm31HQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwid45ynj9DWAhVDLhoKHb3qCNoQ6AEILzAF#v=onepage&q=the%20awful%20cry%20too%20late&f=false

Arborea Thank you

It may come from a biography of Lord Randolph Churchill by Winston Churchill:

(and tx to other posters)

Don't think so .... pretty certain it was something my DM sometimes said .. and she liked her poems.

So a little mystery there ...

www.poemhunter.com/search/?q=too+late+too+late

also draws a blank

I guess I can claim it then

AFP news agency‏*@AFP*
#BREAKING "We have earned the right to an independent state," says Catalan leader

This is getting nasty. And dangerous.

There's a lot more to this than meets the eye.
www.independent.co.uk/voices/catalan-catalonia-independence-referendum-spain-smokescreen-for-other-issues-a7976841.html

Europe Elects‏*@EuropeElects*
Spain (Catalonia): #Catalonia government to declare independence within the next days. #Spain #1Oct

@lemondefr

Indépendantistes écossais et Britanniques europhobes « préoccupés » après le référendum catalan

www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2017/10/01/independantistes-ecossais-et-britanniques-europhobes-preoccupes-apres-le-referendum-catalan_5194524_3214.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1506890828

I'm in the awkward position of agreeing with BJ on this one.
NS and lexiteers like Paul Mason should tread lightly.

Catalonia government to declare independence within the next days.
Omfg. This is Vlad's 'in'. Fuck. Another bloody coup.

JK Rowling linked to this Twitter thread, its quite an interesting perspective on the Catalan referendum (though possibly late in some of its content given the news)

@nandorvila
I'm a dual Spanish citizen, and I'm half Catalan and half Castilian so this whole situation in Spain has been very disheartening to me.
As a person On The Left, it's in my training to reject Nationalism in any form. It's almost always a destructive force. .
Not to be all Ron Fournier about it but this crisis has been largely fueled by craven Nationalism on both sides.
Financial crises fuel nationalism. We saw this in the 1930s and we're seeing it all over Europe with a resurgence far right parties.
Post 2008, Spain hasn't seen its own version of Front Nationale or UKIP. Spanish nat'lism hasn't turned on immigrants, it's turned on itself
As we've seen from the images today, the right wing government in Madrid is incredibly craven and reactionary. Almost fascistic.
Rajoy has used his hardline stance against Catalunya to shore up his base of support in a moment of economic hardship for Spain.
And as @bcqer points out, it's a good way to distract from an unbelievable corruption scandal that has plagued the conservative party.
That isn't to say that the movement for an independent Catalunya is a left wing emancipatory one. It just isn't.
Catalan nationalism has typically been conservative, especially in the democratic era. CiU, which ruled Catalunya for decades, is neoliberal
The current ruling coalition, which supports independence, is led by a conservative (Puidgemont) in an alliance with anti-capitalist parties
Literally the only thing they have in common is a sense of shared nationalism. That's it. That alone should give people pause.
In fact a lot of the leftists that are veterans of the labor movement and anti-Franco resistance reject independence guardian article
That said, that doesn't mean that Catalunya shouldn't be allowed to vote. It absolutely should. Madrid's actions today are heinous.
Allow the vote, and make the case for Catalans to stay in solidarity with their brothers in other regions. Do The Work, so to speak.
Catalunya is the richest region of Spain and has a lot of values worth admiring. It should be on the vanguard of a more just Spain.

LH - was the “too late, too late, an awful cry” followed up by a line about waving a wooden leg?

“there will be no referendum” has been Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy’s favourite refrain over the last few weeks

Sounds to be the same story as David Davis told us about Brexit - there will be no second Referendum.

Seeing the scenes of violence and people saying that this couldn't happen in the UK - I was reminded of the battle of Orgreave, for a starter. It has and could happen again.

That article is good Hashi I like this quote:
All of us here are immigrants but we’re all Catalans, too,” says Martínez, who is dismissive of the case for Catalan independence. “It’s about class. I don’t have a problem with the person standing next to me, it’s the one above me who’s the problem.”

Catalunya is the richest region of Spain

Is that not a key point here? Do you ever see really poor areas desperately fighting for independence.

Seems appropriate to post up this bit blurry picture from Peace George Square (in Glasgow) from 17 September 2014. These were tea lights that had been laid out by people who had come up from Catalonia. There was a lovely atmosphere and sense of hope in the square that night (with only a very small group of neds - about 6 people - draped in Union Jacks and protesting on the other side of the road). I know that in Scotland the result didn't go the way I hoped for - but even before the vote, I felt that the vote needed to be 60:40 in favour for such a major constitutional change or otherwise you'd end up with endless bickering and bitterness.

Shame they didn't learn that lesson for Brexit

As an additional point, I fail to understand why "nationalism" (when it describes Scottish, Welsh - or indeed Catalonian - identities) is "bad", but "British" nationalism is "good" Or that "sovereignty" is at risk from the EU, yet Scotland concedes far more "sovereignty" to Westminster than it would as an independent state within the EU

If the word "self determinism" had been used, would that make it more acceptable?

Re "poor areas not fighting for independence", Malta was really poor yet voted 54% in favour of its independence (to be fair, technically they voted for the change in their constitution which would result in its independence) in the 60s. (64?)

There was an infamous letter in The Times which was published in 1959, saying "Malta cannot live on its own ... the island could pay for only one-fifth of her food and essential imports; well over one-quarter of the present labour force would be out of work, and the economy would collapse without British Treasury subventions. Talk of full independence for Malta is therefore hopelessly impractical.”

I don't see Malta clamouring to rejoin the UK Not that it didn't have problems (eg the Mintoff era - one of my GP neighbours came to the UK to study during that era and didn't go back) but they were its problems.

Being part of the EU has also been positive for Malta.

'"Too late," is an awful cry' are words attributed by Winston Churchill to Lord Randolph Churchill during a debate in the HoC in the context of rout and imperial humiliation at the hands of the Sudanese. (1880s? 1890s?)
Could this be the reference, LH?

books.google.com/books?id=BVVOAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT301&lpg=PT301&dq=Too+late,+too+late,+the+awful+cry&source=bl&ots=G_j7R0OhCv&sig=iuOlcHM9OP3PgBlSV6rbCL3b8mE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwin0MLv_tDWAhUBWCYKHbZuADEQ6AEINzAD#v=onepage&q=Too%20late%2C%20too%20late%2C%20the%20awful%20cry&f=false