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Brexit

Westminstenders: Beano or Bust

978 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2017 21:33

The last week has seemingly been eventful but not in the way that's on the surface.

It's what's going on behind the scenes and the little comments in less high profile speeches that's more telling.

On the one hand the Norths think the May speech is a laying down "an offer" that the EU can not accept, in order to set up a no deal situation.

On the other hand Telegraph Journalist Peter Foster thinks there things going on in Brussels with the EU set to compromise in someway and help May present a deal acceptable to the British. You have to wonder whether the "presentational" stuff is about a deal to essentially be in the EU but not in the EU. A Brexit Existing in A Name Only. Beano.

It's difficult to tell, and it will come down to brinkmanship over timing. For both a deal and for the Repel Bill as the two sides in parliament try to push things to their limit for their own ends.

In this vacuum of uncertainty CBI and their "arch enemies" the TUC have put out a joint statement saying no deal is nuts and will screw every one and the way EU cits have been treated has been dreadful.

As it stands it does look like May is serious about a deal and Davis is also acting in this way. Johnson and Hannan have launched their Institute for Free Trade (at the foreign office breaking ministerial code, but hell there's no consequences these days anyway cos May dare not let Johnson off the Brexit hook) in retaliation to try and retell the Brexit story as always being about free trade rather than racist. Unfortunately leavers seem to have bust that by admitting they are considerably more racist than Remainers by their own admission.

Then there's Trump and Bombardier. Just as Brexiteers are pushing for this closer relationship with the US in trade, despite May personally lobbying Trump he fucks her over slapping 220% tariff on Bombardier and putting the future of 4000 jobs at risk. This was inevitable as Trump fucks everyone for his own gain. The US won't ride to the aid of the British capitalists. They'll just eat them alive.

This week sees an important vote by the European Parliament on Brexit red lines. One of the votes states that the UK has to either stay in the customs union and internal market or NI has to have a special arrangement and stay in the customs union and the internal market in order to protect the EUs border integrity. Neither is compatible with what the Cons and the DUP have said they want.

It's also the Tory Party conference.May's big speech, in which she must throw red meat to the swivel eyed loons on right, is on Weds. There are of course, no debates at ConParty because, well, they can't behave like good little children without supervision. Instead the conference is to, erm... yeah we'll find out next week.

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Badders08 · 06/10/2017 14:16

Dh hasn't been paid for overtime since 2000....

LurkingHusband · 06/10/2017 14:17

Good luck with this ...

www.theguardian.com/law/2017/oct/05/uks-new-supreme-court-chief-calls-for-clarity-on-ecj-after-brexit

Parliament should give judges “as much clarity as possible” in setting out the UK’s relationship to the European Union’s court of justice after Brexit, the new president of the supreme court has urged.

(contd)

LurkingHusband · 06/10/2017 14:18

I remember a Tory politician lamenting that UK workers in industry take 5 days to produce what Germans do in 4 days and not knowing why

4 hour daily commutes (2 there, 2 back) probably don't help.

LurkingHusband · 06/10/2017 14:21

Turn your sound on Smile

CardinalSin · 06/10/2017 15:10

That's brilliant!

woman11017 · 06/10/2017 15:29

Spot on about British working practices BCF
Dunt thinks she'll hang on as PM:
www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/10/06/week-in-review-end-of-may-reopens-tory-brexit-wounds

LurkingHusband · 06/10/2017 15:37

If (or when) May goes, then what are the prospects for another general election ?

At least May has the claim that the public put her where she is today (and you can take that how you like). Any successor will only have the post-Cameron problem of asserting their democratic credentials.

There's a pleasing irony that establishment moves to ensure general ignorance of the political process in the UK does hit the buffers at this point. The majority of people struggle with the fact we can change Prime Ministers without a vote.

Putting my antipathy aside for one moment, I wonder if the relentless
pressure and scrutiny that Theresa May is under - effectively being forced to stay - might resolve the situation with a health scare or more serious ?

Or, to be blunt. If the UK were an airliner with Theresa May as pilot, I would hope and pray we have a co-pilot ready to step in at a moments notice. (Mental image of the "Airplane" auto pilot .....)

prettybird · 06/10/2017 15:41

Ian Dunt's comment, "We've been stuck, for over a year now, in the land of fairy tales. Europe has gone from sadness, to anger, to exasperation, to boredom, waiting for us to make sense." just rings so true SadAngryShockHmmConfused

woman11017 · 06/10/2017 15:47

@MichaelLCrick
Last week Lord Nash was replaced as Schools Minister by Sir Theodore Agnew, who also got a peerage. Both are substantial Conservative donors

Old story, but I've always worried about conflict of interest issues, with Mr May's tax avoidance company.
May vows to stop tax avoidance... while her husband profits from Amazon & Starbucks
www.rt.com/uk/350901-theresa-may-husband-taxes/

OlennasWimple · 06/10/2017 16:02

Reginald D Hunter is not without controversy, just pointing out for balance

Theodore Agnew has been on the executive board at DfE for years and is another big supporter of academies and free schools. Not quite a direct 1:1 swap, but I wouldn't expect a significant change in direction from the change in minister

Love that Monty Python film Lurking!

LurkingHusband · 06/10/2017 16:07

Reginald D Hunter is not without controversy, just pointing out for balance

Fair point. However as he points out himself, in his second show, there's something a little odd about "bringing your nicest manners" to a comedy gig.

I liked his observation:"If I was a woman, I wouldn't be insulted by words like cunt, or bitch. What I would be insulted by is words like 'you gonna earn 20% less than a man'."

LurkingHusband · 06/10/2017 16:08

Love that Monty Python!

If people are putting that much effort into dissing "la May", things are bad, surely ?

woman11017 · 06/10/2017 16:13

Hunter, like some men, has form for sexism. He is not a public servant.

That tweet from the tory was racist and demeaning. She is in public office.

On Agnew: Conflict of interest though, Oleanna it's a bit cash for power isn't it.

His crumby predecessor who fucked up GCSE and A level choices forcing kids to do 'male' subjects.

www.artsprofessional.co.uk/news/education-minister-dont-worry-about-decline-arts-subjects-computing-rise

woman11017 · 06/10/2017 16:15

I liked his observation:"If I was a woman, I wouldn't be insulted by words like cunt, or bitch. What I would be insulted by is words like 'you gonna earn 20% less than a man'

Offensive, on both counts.

prettybird · 06/10/2017 16:21

I'm confused Woman - why is it offensive to challenge the fact that women earn 20% less than men? Confused Surely he was challenging discrimination there? Confused

woman11017 · 06/10/2017 16:31

prettybird I thought it was offensive, comparing sexist abuse with inequitable 'wage structures' (20% less would be great if the gap was that little in reality). He seems to be suggesting we put up with abuse to fight wage inequality.

The geezer's sexist, the article had more on his derogatory language towards women, but he's not a parliamentary representative.

RedToothBrush · 06/10/2017 16:34

Robert Peston on Facebook:

Almost everyone who saw Theresa May's ordeal of a speech at Tory conference feels sorry for her.

The problem for her is that leaders with more than a temporary shelf life don't need pity. They want and need respect - and because she has been struggling to regain that, she is vulnerable.

That is why the manoeuvres of the former Tory chairman Grant Shapps to see her ousted - which began in a public sense when he appeared on Peston on Sunday last weekend - are more damaging than Boris Johnson's recent civil disobedience.

Johnson's public display of disloyalty can be characterised as the cynical pursuit of personal ambition. Shapps can present himself - for all his own thwarted ambition - as the mouthpiece of anxious backbenchers and members.

So the life-or-death question for May is whether Shapps and Johnson are in cahoots.

Her team think that they are. One of them told me this:
"Grant met with Boris, Amanda Milling and Jake Berry to discuss matters in the second week of the September sitting".

Berry and Milling are important Johnson supporters in the Commons.

Now for what it is worth, Johnson's camp vehemently denies any such meeting took place.

So I relay the anecdote more as evidence of the cancerous climate of mistrust between May on the one hand and Johnson and Shapps on the other.

This would be no way to run a Sunday morning kids' football team, let alone a cabinet and country.

May needs to find a way to exert her authority, and regain that precious respect. The moment is approaching when she may have to insist that her opponents put up or shut up - and show whether they have the numbers for a leadership challenge, and have the stomach to pull the trigger.

The status quo, of relentless speculation about her grip on office, is unsustainable. For May, it's do or quit time.

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prettybird · 06/10/2017 16:38

Fair enough - I didn't read the full article. I could understand your objection to him not finding cunt and bitch offensive.

RedToothBrush · 06/10/2017 16:39

Peter Foster‏ @pmdfoster
Theresa May, to quote a Tory peer to me, is the "mummified corpse" of a Prime Minister. For #Brexit this is a problem 1/
Europe would rather have May than Boris or other blue-sky Brexiteer to negotiate with but... 2/
As thing stand they cannot trust she has authority to negotiate. Boris has destroyed that by publicly undermining her. /3
EU notes May held Florence lines at conference, but asks if she can enforce them in negotiations? Or she she wills be there by Xmas /4
And if May goes, and is replaced by Boris or Davis, then we must presume Olly Robbins goes to. Will he be there by Christmas? 5/
So when Robbins enters talks next week. Or May enters EUCO leaders summit in Oct 19-20 they are both wounded animals. /6
Can a wounded animal really lead the herd?
Only sacking Boris could restore her authority in Brussels
How long after that wd May last?/7
The uncertainly would persist. So either way May is finished.
And yet settling Cabinet fight over Brexit will be bloody and chaotic. /8
Corpse or chaos. That's the choice now.
With the #Brexit clock ticking the muddle-through feels over. 9/ENDS

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LurkingHusband · 06/10/2017 16:39

May needs to find a way to exert her authority, and regain that precious respect. The moment is approaching when she may have to insist that her opponents put up or shut up - and show whether they have the numbers for a leadership challenge, and have the stomach to pull the trigger.

s/May/Major/

Is this some bizarre rerun of "Goodnight Sweetheart" ...

If she does pull the leadership lever, will she stand as a hard brexiteer, a soft one, or a non-one ?

LurkingHusband · 06/10/2017 16:43

Europe would rather have May than Boris or other blue-sky Brexiteer to negotiate with but.

As far as I can see (and it's not the hottest topic overseas) there no real sentiment one way or the other about who the PM is. Although I suspect this is a realisation that whoever is PM, Brexit is going to be a dogs breakfast.

I find myself vaguely wondering if there are some Tories stupid enough to think that changing leader will somehow buy some time as the EU says "oh, new Prime Minister, would you like to extend A50 ?" ...

RedToothBrush · 06/10/2017 16:44

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/whatsapp-groups-next-pm-told-stfu-inside-tory-party-right-now/
Whatsapp fall-outs and karaoke mishaps: What really happened at Tory party conference
(By Alex Wickham aka WikiGuido)

Shapps has lofty ambitions – he recently admitted he thought he had what it takes to be leader himself. He told the media yesterday he has a list of 30 MPs who want May to resign – Tory sources say the true number is closer to 19, well short of the 48 required to trigger a contest.

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*
It's all kicking off on Tory MP WhatsApp group. Various MPs accused of being on Shapps list, denounced if don't answer within a few mins...

That sounds like the right of the party are rather paranoid.

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woman11017 · 06/10/2017 16:45

Smile prettybird He's a bit of a noodle.

the mouthpiece of anxious backbenchers and members.
No one wants to be the stalking horse, candidate, do they?
Timing's wrong for any of the 'contenders' to win.

lalalonglegs · 06/10/2017 16:47

I'm putting my money on her going sooner rather than later. She must know that the game is up, it's one humiliation after another, Lord alone knows what this must be doing to her health. The only possible way she can take some tiny modicum of control is to jump rather than wait to see who pushes her.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/10/2017 16:47

I suspect she may have had enough - health grounds are a handy & plausible excuse for her to step aside.

She's wanted to be PM since Uni, according to her contemporaries

  • she's now finding that sometimes after achieving your lifetime ambition, the prize turns to ashes