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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare

997 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 22:43

Boris Johnson just dared May to fire him.

That's what his little rant about £350 million buses is.

Meanwhile its been pointed out that HMRC literally are incapable of handling a no deal and can only cope with an EEA / EFTA deal with no tariffs.

And given how good and on time the government are with computer systems even in a best case scenario are extremely unlikely to crack it in time.

Which makes Hammond's talk of a civil contingence plan, look, well half arsed and lacking.

We also wouldn't have planes able to fly to Europe under a no deal as we would no longer be part of Open Skies. This could leave thousands stranded. But no biggie there.

Meanwhile if the Leave Alliance have things right, May is about to serve our one year notice on leaving the EEA making all these things a reality.

Which is less like shooting yourself in the head and more like shooting yourself in the head, chest, foot, arm, leg and face (for a second time), whilst being run over at the same time.

But hey, Boris Johnson has it sussed in his 10 point plan. Especially the point where he says Brexit will be a success.

If you call success ending democracy, becoming a dictatorship, starving everyone, bankrupting the country and causing civil unrest.

Rule Britannia.

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RedToothBrush · 18/09/2017 09:30

Carl Gardner‏*@carlgardner*

Unfortunately in Brexit Britain it's more likely Norgrove will be sacked for "unpatriotic" truth than Johnson for disloyalty and lies.

THIS

So much this.

It seems that Brexit plans are getting more and more desperate.

Smugglers behaving themselves?! Is this like how people behave themselves and pay all their tax and don't stick it off shore?

The other week it was about managing immigration, NOT at our borders but in other parts of society. Whilst May goes on about how much she is anti-slavery and anti illegal immigration, a policy which makes this MORE not less likely is being seriously talked about in government.

This is the fantasy meets reality. Just as the EU are being called obstructive for not doing things which would be impossible for legal and practical reasons, the UK is coming up with fantasies as they also realise these same legal and practical problems, rather than admit that actually their ideas are a load of bollocks which won't achieve what they want.

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woman11017 · 18/09/2017 09:32

Did he speak at all do you know woman
Not sure, Hashi, but he's back to posting and organising.
Some handsome new Remain sweatshirts up for sale, and the focus is on Manchester for tory conference.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2017 09:32

Another Day.
Another Immigration Story.
Another shocking example of the Home Office ignoring the law.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/18/fighting-the-home-office-womans-traumatic-two-year-battle-to-stay-in-uk?CMP=twt_gu
Deportation threats, driving licence revoked, child benefit stopped - all for living legally in the UK

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PattyPenguin · 18/09/2017 09:46

From Peregrina's post:
"The UK could prioritise trade and preserve the status quo by operating customs largely on “trust” — hoping importers pay their dues and smugglers behave. Call it Plan C; it’s the most viable no-deal option Britain has (even for the Irish border question) unless Theresa May’s September 22 speech in Florence offers enough to get those customs negotiations under way."

The UK already has form for this.

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/08/uk-faces-2bn-fine-over-chinese-imports-scam-say-eu-anti-fraud-investigators

^"The British government faces a €2bn (£1.7bn) fine for negligence that allowed criminal gangs to flood European black markets with illegal Chinese goods, EU anti-fraud investigators have said.

The European anti-fraud office (known as Olaf from its French name, Office de Lutte Anti-Fraude) has recommended the UK pay €1.98bn into the EU budget to compensate for lost customs duties, as a result of a failure by British customs officials to crack down on criminal gangs using fake invoices and making false claims about the value of clothes and shoes imported from China.

Olaf said the fraud was ongoing and pointed out the cost to national exchequers was even greater. France, Germany, Spain and Italy are estimated to have lost a combined €3.2bn from 2013 to 2016 in VAT revenues, as a result of British failures in handling imports at its ports.^
...
In one example given by the anti-fraud team, women’s trousers imported from China were declared in the UK at an average price of €0.91 a kg, although market prices for cotton were €1.44kg, a disparity that failed to raise the alarm for the British."

Note "as a result of British failures in handling imports at its ports".

Still, after Brexit it will only be the UK Exchequer losing out, if the EU ramps up its Customs operations, to stop stuff like the above - and it's probably going to have to.

woman11017 · 18/09/2017 09:47

Hashi I think he's on at 11am this morning.

Lib dems have a good programme for their conference.

@jameschappers

Speaking at #LibDemconf this morning with Blair's former EU adviser @liddlro @SarahLudford and others #stopbrexit #TheDemocrats

www.libdems.org.uk/conference-live

Another shocking example of the Home Office ignoring the law.

Some might say they are traitors to the secular vow to uphold the constitution.

I think I'd call them traitors, if one has to stoop to base definitions.

Lico that seems to echo Somerville's experience? So private providers are tracking alleged ethnicity.

Fortunate that I identify as a young Jamaican man then. Grin

Tanith · 18/09/2017 09:48

Redtoothbrush You mentioned British Values being taught in schools. I wonder if you've read this article?:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/15/british-values-for-kids-scepticism-and-bloody-mindedness-would-be-a-good-startt*

HashiAsLarry · 18/09/2017 09:54

Awesome, thanks woman
Sort of wish I'd gone though I wouldn't have been there today anyway!

woman11017 · 18/09/2017 09:58

A 41-year-old German woman who arrived in the UK in 1998, who preferred to remain anonymous, said she was refused a test drive at a car dealership in Stockport because her driving licence was European and “due to Brexit no longer valid

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/11/no-europeans-need-apply-growing-evidence-discrimination-uk-brexit

What's interesting about the above, and other posters who have met with anti EU racist policy in the private sector, is that state racism is being acted on by completely private individuals.

Just like the State racism of Hitler was then perpetrated by ordinary German, French, Polish and Channel Islands citizens against the Jewish citizens of their countries.

It wasn't just conducted by civil servants 'following orders'.

Interesting.

MichaelFabricantsHair · 18/09/2017 10:33

or wipe bottoms 40 hrs per week

I'll bite here BigChoc. I worked in care for over 10 years before illness and disability struck. I have a close relative with 24 hour care needs. Can you please not reduce care work down to 'wiping bottoms? That's not all the job entails; it's an underpaid, under valued job that is damned hard work and reducing it to terms like that isn't on, I think it's disrespectful to both those that work in care and particularly those who have personal care needs.

Palermonese · 18/09/2017 10:33

Went to see a private medical consultant last week and she wrote French ancestry in my form without my say so... I corrected her and asked her to write Norman ancestry instead; she was completely baffled and wrote it down because she did not want to appear an idiot!

My family have found that the level on knowledge in the UK about outside the UK is generally poor - to be charitable.

I'll see your French/Norman split, and raise you Italian/Sicilian. With a guarantee that most people have no idea Sicily has it's own flag, spead of languages (where I can't understand someone from Messina, or Catania, or Trapani, or Syracuse if they speak natively) and after the war a very real resistance to Italian integration that looked to becoming a state of the US.

My DF met Giuliano when on National Service ...

and since Poldark has got some fanny gallops, when are we going to see story about Giuliano ?

Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare
LurkingHusband · 18/09/2017 10:48

Oh dear Sad my MP has dropped off www.writetothem.com/

They're saying that they have no contact details.

So no nice 3rd party to monitor and measure effectiveness.

prettybird · 18/09/2017 11:01

MichaelFabricant - to be fair on BigChoc, she was by no means demeaning the work that care workers do. If you've read her posts in the past, she very much understands what is involved and, like many of us on here, think it is massively undervalued (as is childcare). However, unfortunately, that is how UK society perceives the role and what it involves and why there is such difficulty recruiting for what are usually NMW jobs Sad

MichaelFabricantsHair · 18/09/2017 11:16

Fair enough prettybird. I just hate hate hate seeing care being spoken of in terms like that. If society views care in such lazy terms then it should be challenged, not perpetuated by people who know otherwise.

Apologies if I came across as being spikey, Flowers pain and lack of sleep don't always make me as measured as I try to be Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2017 11:47

It was my grim reality, Michael I know some carers are wonderful; some are not
I decided long ago that I'm heading for a managed Swiss clinic end (if I Iearn in advance that I'm losing my faculties and will need care)

  • I've noone to keep checking a care home and to move me elsewhere if the care is inadequate

Back in the 1970s, when there were no checks, I was an assistant care worker in a care home for the elderly for 3 months during the long uni vacation.

I have to admit "wiping bottoms" was a shorthand, but cleaning up bodily fluids was a big part of the job.
There was no enrichment activities or anything beyond basic physical care.
Horrendously depressing, dreadful attitudes towards the elderly
By far the worst job I ever had - and part of that was the horrid attitudes of the carers, regarding people as lumps of meat to be fed & cleaned

When I was looking for homes for my late mum, several years ago, I visited several homes and some really were smelly warehouses, no communication, no quality of life, where I wouldn't leave a dog

I spent ages finding a good care home, with carers that talked to the elderly and gave them wnrichment activities - it was expensive and the carers all worked there longterm, so I presume they were paid more

Before that, mum had 5 care visits daily, (3 x hourly and 2 shorter) but sometimes the carers didn't actually turn up.
Also, I was away for 3 weeks and they never contacted me to say she hadn't been fed - one of them was supposed to do shopping, but was away ill, then didn't do it, so the food ran out.
Noone thought to do anything about this. She was so hungry when I returned. Bitches.
Hence the home.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2017 11:51

Sorry, I know there are wonderful carers and the home my mum spent her final years wa marvellous.
However, she also experienced dreadful ones, that didn't give a damn

I was just remembering her last night, finding some old photos and feeling rather miserable about the 2 years before the homr

Caring is a very important job, which is grossly underpaid, but it can make life hell on earth if carers don't care

Peregrina · 18/09/2017 11:51

Back in the 1970s, when there were no checks, I was an assistant care worker in a care home for the elderly for 3 months during the long uni vacation.

An ex boyfriend told me some absolute horror tales about the time he had a summer job in an Asylum in the early 70s. These were definitely people who were treated as though they were sub-human.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2017 11:52

All her jewellery was stolen over the years, all her chains & rings which she loved

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2017 11:54

Yes, those jobs always had vacancies, but after that one carer experience, I always chose others

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2017 12:24

(paywall) Boris Johnson struck first against Theresa May to avoid being Brexit fall guy

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/thwarted-johnson-struck-first-to-avoid-being-brexit-fall-guy-2qpw5scxr

Theresa May had left No 10 and arrived in her Maidenhead constituency when one of her political team called her away to take an urgent call early on Friday evening.

She had had a draining day overseeing the manhunt for the Parsons Green bomber and was due to announce that the national terrorism threat level was being raised.

The prime minister listened in silence as she was told that Boris Johnson’s office had just emailed a 4,200-word article setting out his vision for Brexit.
It was due to be published on The Daily Telegraph’s website within the next few hours, she was told.

Theresa May, attending church with husband Philip in Maidenhead,
had conferred with aides over the foreign secretary’s article.

In fact she already knew.
Mr Johnson had spoken to her earlier in the day to alert her.
The foreign secretary had considered pulling the article when he saw the news about Britain’s fifth terrorist attack of the year
but decided to push ahead as it became obvious that there had been no fatalities.
He called Mrs May to explain himself
< must have been an interesting conversation Hmm >

“It was a fait accompli,”
one figure involved said.
“There was no attempt to get him to pull it and no offer from him to compromise on contents.”

The next day Mrs May and her team had to decide how to respond to his challenge to her authority,
days before her own speech in Florence on Friday.

She had two choices:
to sack him < she is really powerless if she can't do that soon >

or to insist that although his intervention was regrettable there was no substantial breach of cabinet collective responsibility.

Damian Green, the de facto deputy prime minister, Hmm < how many voters have even heard of him ? >
Robbie Gibb, Mrs May’s new director of communications,
and Gavin Barwell, her chief of staff, are all likely to have been consulted about what to do.

In fact Mr Gibb thought that he had headed off the danger after Mr Johnson agreed to pull a speech on Brexit
when it became obvious that it would overshadow the second reading of the EU (Withdrawal) Bill this month.

A deal to delay until after Mrs May’s own address came apart
when Mr Johnson found that there had been an informal meeting of cabinet ministers to discuss its contents on Thursday
while he was on a visit to the Caribbean after Hurricane Irma.
< his pesky day job getting in the way of his career >

Alarmed that he was being cut out, he demanded reassurance from Downing Street that Mrs May was not about to “sell the pass” on the Brexit “divorce bill”.

When No 10 refused to rule out a lengthy and expensive transition from the bloc,
Mr Johnson reached for the draft of his undelivered speech and phoned his former employers at The Daily Telegraph. < temper >

Challenged on Saturday by Tory MPs, Mr Johnson protested injured innocence.
He said he had simply wanted to be “sunny” about Brexit.
To calm nerves he agreed to send a supportive tweet:
“Looking forward to PM’s Florence speech.
All behind Theresa for a glorious Brexit.”
Few in Westminster are fooled by the insouciant tone adopted by either side.

“Boris is f@@@ed,” a minister said.
“He’s not coming back from this — and perhaps that’s the point, he doesn’t really want to.”

It has been an open secret in Whitehall that Mr Johnson was becoming discontented by his role in the Foreign Office.

He was briefly enthused by Donald Trump and believed he had found a role as an interlocutor with an administration that shared his anarchic spirit and enthusiasm for Brexit.

President Trump’s response to clashes in Charlottesville, Virginia, between white supremacists and counter-protesters forced a final reassessment.

The departure from the White House of Steve Bannon, with whom Mr Johnson had forged a good working relationship, Hmm closed a route into the administration.

Mr Johnson’s frustration with Brexit continued to grow,
meanwhile, along with questions over his utility as foreign secretary at a time when the key foreign policy questions were being determined in No 10.

He has become increasingly sensitive to the claim that he wilfully misled voters Hmm
over Britain’s EU budget contribution and what additional sums might be available to public services after Brexit.

Early in Mrs May’s government the foreign secretary raised the issue, saying that voters had been promised more cash for the NHS.

“That was your promise, Boris,”
Philip Hammond, the chancellor, shot back,
“not ours.”

Sir David Norgrove, chairman of the UK Statistics Authority, rebuked Mr Johnsonin a letter for repeating in his article on Saturday the claim that £350 million a week could be freed up.

Now with the prospect of a “divorce bill” settling in the region of £30 billion to £40 billion,

Mr Johnson fears that he is in line to take the brunt of any backlash from Leave voters
who might feel betrayed by the reality
that public services will not experience any Brexit uplift until 2022 at the earliest.
< and the likely post-Brexit recession >

Mr Johnson has made clear that he is not willing to be party to a betrayal. Hmm

< he's already party to a Suez-class cockup & national humiliation >

Badders08 · 18/09/2017 12:24

Guy in charge of brexit just quit...

Badders08 · 18/09/2017 12:26

Awwww....poor Dave and Sam...

LurkingHusband · 18/09/2017 12:29

It has been an open secret in Whitehall that Mr Johnson was becoming discontented by his role in the Foreign Office.

who the hell writes this drivel !!!!!?????

becoming discontented ffs !!!!!!!!! Makes Trump sound like Martin Luther King fgs

TheElementsSong · 18/09/2017 12:30

Guy in charge of brexit just quit...

Gosh! Any further details? Guess he just didn't BeLeave enough?

Maybe we'll lose our recurrent visitor now that this perfect opportunity to demonstrate their capabilities has become vacant?