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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare

997 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 22:43

Boris Johnson just dared May to fire him.

That's what his little rant about £350 million buses is.

Meanwhile its been pointed out that HMRC literally are incapable of handling a no deal and can only cope with an EEA / EFTA deal with no tariffs.

And given how good and on time the government are with computer systems even in a best case scenario are extremely unlikely to crack it in time.

Which makes Hammond's talk of a civil contingence plan, look, well half arsed and lacking.

We also wouldn't have planes able to fly to Europe under a no deal as we would no longer be part of Open Skies. This could leave thousands stranded. But no biggie there.

Meanwhile if the Leave Alliance have things right, May is about to serve our one year notice on leaving the EEA making all these things a reality.

Which is less like shooting yourself in the head and more like shooting yourself in the head, chest, foot, arm, leg and face (for a second time), whilst being run over at the same time.

But hey, Boris Johnson has it sussed in his 10 point plan. Especially the point where he says Brexit will be a success.

If you call success ending democracy, becoming a dictatorship, starving everyone, bankrupting the country and causing civil unrest.

Rule Britannia.

OP posts:
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Badders08 · 18/09/2017 07:57

Trout...again, link to the YouTube interview please....

Badders08 · 18/09/2017 07:58

somerville
Yeah
The "spiritual homeland" bit made a bit sick in my mouth 🤢

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2017 07:58

amp.ft.com/content/912f57d8-9b99-11e7-9a86-4d5a475ba4c5
‘Cliff-edge’ Brexit threatens expats’ pensions, warn MPs
Insurance policies also at risk as ministers are urged to secure contracts

The MP said in a letter to Philip Hammond, the chancellor, that hundreds of thousands of long-term pensions and insurance policies were at risk unless the government takes action to secure the future of the contracts.

UK-based insurance companies sell a variety of long-term contracts to customers elsewhere in the EU using the bloc’s so-called passporting arrangements. They range from personal pensions to commercial negligence policies.

MP in question here is Tory Nicky Morgan.

OP posts:
KilgoreTroutV · 18/09/2017 08:00

Mistigri Mon 18-Sep-17 05:37:57
Note time of our visitor's last posting (US evening or Moscow morning).

Or somebody who works perhaps?

HashiAsLarry · 18/09/2017 08:08

^^
We call it strawberry mess in this house!

😂 badders

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/09/2017 08:08

Did you find the video kilgore

I think badders really wants to see it

Peregrina · 18/09/2017 08:09

The contracting cleaning company switched and put all the former employees on absolute minimum wage with a tiny fraction of what the previous employees enjoyed in terms of benefits etc. The new company actively hires in Portugal. They are all lovely people but to believe that this some Liberal fair-minded utopia is just bunkum. FOM favours large corporations because it allows them to make more profit by hiring cheaper labour from poorer parts of the EU.

So when the EU citizens have gone, British employers will ignore labour legislation and bring in black and brown Commonwealth citizens at slave wages. I wonder how many crocodile tears will be shed then, on their behalf? This contempt for workers has been going on since Thatcher's day.

KilgoreTroutV · 18/09/2017 08:10

frumpety Sun 17-Sep-17 18:56:54
Kilgore are you happy with the repel bill and what it amounts to ? The EU for all the hype is actually very keen on voting and being democratic and all that , unlike it seems our own dear government

And you and I have the freedom to vote them out at the next election if we choose to.

AFAIK the Repeal Bill was necessary step to get all existing EU Laws on to the UK statute books in one go because we simply would not have had time to write, debate and vote on each piece legislation that we have worked under since 1972 in the EEC/ now EU.

The way we have to deal with it is not perfect but I don't see any other option. Do you?

I agree with Matthew Paris (an avowed Remain Supporter) on this particular point...

As far as opposition parties blocking the Repeal Bill process and other tasks associated with leaving goes, it won’t mean that Britain remains in the EU, it means that Britain will crash out on very unfavourable terms

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/09/2017 08:12

badders

I dont think you will get your video Sad

Peregrina · 18/09/2017 08:16

You need to do a bit more homework Trout, or ask your minders to update the cribsheet, because the power grab going on by the Tories isn't necessary to bring EU law into UK law. They are just using the cloak of Brexit, to get away with it. They don't like us plebs having the vote; we can't be relied upon to vote the 'right' way.

EternalOptimistToo · 18/09/2017 08:28

www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/1326272/prime-minister-likely-to-flounce-out-in-florence-says-lib-dem-brexit-spokesman/

So it seems our PM might well want to stop all négociations in the run up of the Tory conference... or at least that what the Lib Dem spokesman (Mr Brake) thinks

He said: “I’m in two minds about what she’s going to say.

“Part of me believes she’s going to say these negotiations are not going anywhere, so we’re walking out and going for no deal.

“But the spin around this is the Prime Minister is going to make a concession – perhaps this would be in terms of putting forward a figure for the settlement bill.”

Mr Brake claimed the speech being timed just before the Conservatives’ UK conference at the start of October meant she was unlikely to soften her approach to the EU.

What if there is some truth in his thinking....

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2017 08:36

(paywall) Have Brexiteers shot themselves in the foot by not putting customs first?*
*
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/have-brexiteers-shot-themselves-in-the-foot-by-not-putting-customs-first-2h3q08x7bb**

If you think there are 19 months until Brexit D-Day, March 29, 2019, think again. *
Britain has just six months.
*
If there is no customs agreement, transitional or permanent, by March,
the country will have to start preparing to leave the EU with no deal.

Thousands of border and customs staff will have to be hired,
exporters will have to upgrade systems at vast cost
and Kent county council may have to send in the bulldozers to flatten Dover.
*
There is no more critical Brexit issue than our future customs arrangements with the EU.*

More than £700 billion of goods cross the border annually, roughly £350 billion from Europe.
*
Half of the UK’s food is imported, 70 per cent from the EU.*

About 180,000 UK businesses export
without a thought for customs controls because they trade solely in the EU.

When politicians talk about “frictionless” trade,
think about those trucks rolling on and off ferries at Holyhead, Harwich, Hull and Dover,
not to mention the Channel tunnel.

Lorry freight accounts for 69 per cent of everything the UK buys and sells with the EU.

About 2.6 million trucks pass through Dover alone each year,
carrying £120 billion worth of wine, cheese and the rest, 17 per cent of all the goods we trade.
.....
To be ready for Brexit, the diggers need to break ground by March.
.....
Exporters have a lot on their plate, too. *

Outside the customs union,
the 180,000 businesses* that have been trading solely with the EU will need to make complex “rules of origin” declarations,
which the government estimates could add up to 15 per cent to the cost of the product.
*
Currently, 55 million declarations are made a year by 170,000 companies exporting beyond the EU.*

Volumes are likely to rise to 255 million once we leave, at an annual estimated cost to business of £4 billion to £9 billion.

That’s the easy bit.

At the moment, Britain’s customs system, which has capacity for just 100 million declarations a year, cannot handle Brexit.
.....
HMRC is cutting it fine.
On its new timetable, the system is not scheduled to go live until two months before B-Day.
“We cannot accelerate it any faster than that. Not safely,”

Even assuming HMRC delivers,* Hmm
the service can handle no more than 180 million declarations a year,*
70 million short of what’s needed, the National Audit Office says.*

As Charlie Elphicke, Dover’s Conservative MP, put it:
“If this system isn’t ready, the whole economy goes into gridlock along with all the roads.”

This is Britain’s Plan B then:
an untested customs service short on capacity that will probably be delivered late.
...
That’s the big charge Leave politicians have to answer:

that they didn’t know what they were doing and never had a plan.
Nothing illustrates it better than the customs mess.

Lico · 18/09/2017 08:40

Hi,
Did you watch May last night going on about how wonderful the US/UK relationship is? (Skynews). How great Trump is because he has relatives in Britain etc etc.?

Went to see a private medical consultant last week and she wrote French ancestry in my form without my say so... I corrected her and asked her to write Norman ancestry instead; she was completely baffled and wrote it down because she did not want to appear an idiot!
These nationalistic comments early do wind me up and show, in my view, a complete lack of history education .. Anyway thanks for the thread and the cooking recipes!!!

Mistigri · 18/09/2017 08:47

Have Brexiteers shot themselves in the foot by not putting customs first?*

That article conveniently forgets that British customs facilities are only half of the story. And none of the EU27 are going to be pouring money into this until they know what the brexit end point is, and what's in it for them.

EternalOptimistToo · 18/09/2017 08:49

They don't like us plebs having the vote; we can't be relied upon to vote the 'right' way.

Peregrina do you think that the fear and worry they got with the Scottish referendum has accentuated this feeling? That us plebs can't be relied on to make a decision or rather to take the right decision?

TheElementsSong · 18/09/2017 08:51

To be fair to this incarnation (oh I forgot, there are no Leave posters who are returning PBPs or astroturfers, only Remainers who are scaaaaaary), they've learnt from their previous tells and have dialled down on the hilarious misspellings and aggressive C&P-style harassment. Instead, they've dialled up on the "I know you are but what am I?" style of point-missing pseudo-debate.

If it wasn't for their inability to resist the "Why are you still here if you don't BeLeeeeeeeeeeave in our Beloved Britain, you foreign-tainted traitor?" within, oh, 24 hours of arrival, they might have flown under the radar a bit longer.

I do hope they do stay on in their current incarnation though, I like this one more than the previous.

Peregrina · 18/09/2017 08:54

Possibly, Eternal.

DrivenToDespair · 18/09/2017 08:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Peregrina · 18/09/2017 09:00

I did like this extract from the Times' piece on Customs

The UK could prioritise trade and preserve the status quo by operating customs largely on “trust” — hoping importers pay their dues and smugglers behave. Call it Plan C; it’s the most viable no-deal option Britain has (even for the Irish border question) unless Theresa May’s September 22 speech in Florence offers enough to get those customs negotiations under way.

The bolding is mine.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/09/2017 09:08

Same here theelements

Peregrina · 18/09/2017 09:15

May is now hoping for a trade deal with Canada.

What I notice about this, is that she is setting up working groups in advance because no trade deals can be made yet. Why is she not setting up working groups to discuss the problems that we will have in this country? Two items which should be top of the list - preparations for customs tariffs, replacement of EU health professionals. What do we see? Almost zilch.

Bolshybookworm · 18/09/2017 09:15

Is anyone else enjoying the spat between BoJo and the statisticians Grin. Honestly, what kind of jumped up, egotistical numpty takes on a bunch of statos. Hope they send him 3 pages of equations with "and this is why you're talking out of your arse" at the end.

EternalOptimistToo · 18/09/2017 09:20

hoping importers pay their dues and smugglers behave.

Hahaha. That's not a plan that.
As if any of that would ever happen.....

Badders08 · 18/09/2017 09:23

hoping importers pay their dues and smugglers behave

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2017 09:25

Of course those who complain about wages being undercut:

Replacing them by British workers on higher pay - if any such can be found to do fruit picking at 5am or wipe bottoms 40 hrs per week -

means higher prices of goods and services (private firms) = going out of business if the job can be done abroad
or higher income tax / council tax (public service workers)

However, don't worry:
the govt has promised business can have all the workers it needs
but with reduced rights for E27 workers, so they'll be still easier to exploit than now

Of course, few skilled professionals, scientists, doctors - that the UK desperately needs - would now come to the UK unless they have nowhere else of comparable pay
i.e. from developing countries, or refugees
or of course, those who were bottom of their graduating class and can't get jobs in the E27 or elsewhere.

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