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Brexit

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2017 10:55

Brexit is being fought in the UK media and parliament on the premise that the EU is being difficult and obstructive.

The fallacy can not be understated.

What the UK fails to understand is the right of the EU to put their own interests before the UKs. It doesn't under that our demands cannot be met even if the EU wanted to for practical and legal reasons - not political ones because our understanding of the situation and law is so poor.

The net result is the slippage of the next phase of Brexit talks being pushed to Christmas by the EU due to lack of progress by the UK. Barnier is open to more regular and intense talks but this is bad news for the UK with the a50 clock ticking.

The main stumbling block is NI a with Barnier warning not to use the border as a way to test EU resolve. Brexit always about the NI border. The UK have never provided a solution to the EU that does not produce a hard border. The idea being pushed by the UK will create one despite claiming it won't. The reality is the only viable solutions are either staying in the single market and customs union or NI being granted special status and being different to the rest of the country. The former is opposed by the government, the later opposed by the DUP.

The DUP are getting a taste of their own medicine. They have been warned that Assembly Members might have pay frozen and if they don't reform Stormont they won't get their Billion Pound Booty. Plus Ian Paisley Jr just found a new scandal for the party.

May is trying to channel Venezuela by getting rid of democracy when it suits. The Great Repel Bill (aka as the Withdrawal Bill) faces it's challenge. The much feared Henry VIII in clause 9 are not only facing criticism from Remainers but also from the secretive crackpots of Tory Bastard Club (aka ERG). The TBC want hard cliff edge Brexit. May seems to support given her goodwill burning interference at the Home Office which seeks to discriminate against all foreigners and make them sign a register. The visa system and how it will attract much needed staff for the NHS makes the mind boggle.

The Repel Bill also could end the possibility of transition due to clause 6 which requires us to leave the ECJ. Given the May's ambition to make EU citizens display their stars in job applications this is totally unable to the EU. If it passes the chances of transition drop dramatically. Bye bye Smooth and Orderly.

Then there is the May-Bot paradox: the one were she gives a friendly speech to the EU and a nasty on to the Swivel Eyed Loon gathering. As if neither will be reported to the other audience.

On top of this May is attempting the Parliament Rigging Act as she has a 'majority Government'. Yep I know, this is the general election version of 'will of the people'. The Rigging Act seeks to stack parliamentary committees with Tory majorities so they can stop any bill they don't like getting anywhere need the main chamber this limiting the power of opposition to irrelevant. Sadly I think this one will get through due to maths of the HoC atm.

We shouldn't forget the role of the HoL though and the lack of a majority government (why do you think May is saying majority government? It's down to the Sewell convention and trying to make the case it applies when the argument is it doesn't for a minority government).

The other development is the rumours that Boris is for the boot. And Rees-Mogg might get a promotion.

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DrivenToDespair · 15/09/2017 22:48

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HashiAsLarry · 15/09/2017 23:29

Ah, talk of apartheid has reminded me somewhat of our almost consistent failure to condemn things that should have been condemned, and another reason why people from Nigeria, Ghana, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Fiji, Malaya etc. etc. to be especially welcomed here.
I remember a South African friend of mine alerting me to things like this:
Britain risked appearing to support apartheid

HashiAsLarry · 15/09/2017 23:30

Not also why they may not feel welcome here, but also why we may not be the phenomenal trading partner out government claim we are.

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 00:11

How to rig an election part 1:

www.itv.com/news/2017-09-16/english-voters-set-to-be-asked-for-id-for-first-time-under-electoral-trials/
English voters set to be asked for ID for first time under electoral trials

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BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2017 00:15

This thread title includes "the end of Boris"
May will be wishing for a stake through his heart, as the supporters of the undead make their final push for Boris:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/15/time-place-future-boriss-hands-prepare-new-leadership/

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 00:16

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
Boris Johnson told No10 he wouldn't comment before Theresa's speech. Now he's defying her with his own red lines

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RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 00:25

From the department who have issued a reward for working out why 600 staff have left in a year because they don't know why I give you this gem of a tweet:

greg hands @. Greghands
Top opportunities for UK exporters in Romania include infrastructure, energy incl. renewables, healthcare, financial services & more.

Who wants to tell him about this single market and customs union thingie Romania belong to?!

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BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2017 00:38

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/15/uk-exporters-have-hoarded-gains-from-fall-in-sterling-says-ons

Britain continues to suffer from a large trade deficit in manufactured goods despite the fall in the pound and rise in exports, largely as a result of the rise in imports.

The most recent trade figures show that UK exporters have struggled to win contracts in new markets beyond the European Union’s border.
Official figures for July showed the UK’s deficit in the trade in goods with non-EU countries widened by £2.4bn
while exports to the EU grew to cut the trade gap by £1.3bn.

EternalOptimistToo · 16/09/2017 06:08

www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/09/daily-chart-9

I'm wondering. What is best a large group of people who are working and giving into the economy (EU citizens in the uk) or a much much larger group of pensioners who do not bring anything to the economy but will cost a lot health and care wise ( lot of British citizens in the EU)
I think France and Spain might be quite happy with the deal TBH.

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?
EternalOptimistToo · 16/09/2017 07:06

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/17/fascism-history-united-states

A very interesting article about the rise of fascism in the US.
I have to say, it made me wonder, what ab and it the UK?
If white nationalist and neo-fascist movements in the US have grown by 600% on Twitter, outperforming Isis in nearly every category, from follower numbers to numbers of tweets. in the US, how is it the UK?
How many marches and demonstrations from the far right so we not get the hear about?
And what bout the support from the government of some dubious attitudes (e.g. Towards immigrants or the justice system?)

When and if fascism comes to America it will not be labelled ‘made in Germany’; it will not be marked with a swastika,” a US reporter warned urgently in 1938. “It will not even be called fascism; it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism’.”
Is it called 'Making our country great again' in the UK?

mathanxiety · 16/09/2017 07:23

Wrt growing fruit and veg to make up for catastrophic lack of food imports after Brexit - what fun for people in flats, people who want to eat in winter, etc.

mathanxiety · 16/09/2017 07:40

Also, a quibble... JJ Patrick got it wrong - the comparison of BSE and Brexit voting is actually foot and mouth/Brexit. Maybe 'shooting oneself in the foot vs foot-and-mouth' would have been a more accurate tweet..

This one is BSE 1985 to 1988:
www.open.edu/openlearn/ocw/pluginfile.php/65891/mod_oucontent/oucontent/448/cc7ef4bf/4ea1bd35/s250_4_009i.jpg

This one is later BSE:
www.fao.org/docrep/003/W8656E/BSEFig9.gif

Vet shortages after Brexit could threaten the food supply.

woman11017 · 16/09/2017 07:57

Brexit: Tory Government could keep new sweeping powers to change laws for years

Nine Tory MPs have backed a move to ensure so-called 'Henry VIII powers' do not last longer than needed

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-
theresa-may-power-grab-withdrawal-bill-years-laws-a7949241.html

^Government to trial photo ID at polling stations to combat voter fraud
Critics of the plan say it solves a ‘non-existent problem’ and will disenfranchise poorer voters^

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/photo-id-identification-voter-fraud-pickles-review-a7949396.html

The tories and Leave are the electoral miscreants.

woman11017 · 16/09/2017 08:09

The Electoral Commission watchdog recommended in 2014 that voters should be required to prove their identities before casting a ballot, in response to a review into electoral fraud by Sir Eric Pickles that came in the wake of widespread voter fraud in Tower Hamlets.

I see that Google has re written the history of the poll tax. It now shows that so many lovely tories apparently tried to convince thatch of the error of her ways.

Bollox.

Pickles was key in trying to smash labour councils with the poll tax.

Looks like he's at it again here with eliminating voters who can't get photo ID. His report was written in 2014, but is being cited as an excuse.

He is a piece of work.

Up there with Steve Baker, or down there.

TheElementsSong · 16/09/2017 08:41

Thanks for your detailed plans, Boris.

"Brexit will be a success - This country will succeed in our new national enterprise, and will succeed mightily.”

Another Brexiteer treats us to useless content-free exhortations instead of actual substance. Gosh, I can't understand why I'm not utterly convinced.

IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson · 16/09/2017 08:47

"Vet shortages after Brexit could threaten the food supply."

Maybe we can attract highly qualified Swedish vets to help with the vet shortage. If they are willing to be treated as second class citizens with fewer rights to access health care and education and if they don't mind being taxed more than British citizens when buying a family home. I am sure they will jump at such generous opportunity not.

woman11017 · 16/09/2017 08:52

EU nationals prevented from adopting:

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?
woman11017 · 16/09/2017 08:56

Petition to thank Gina Miller:
you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/thank-you-gina-miller?bucket=&source=twitter-share-button

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 09:09

www.politico.eu/article/madrid-to-take-control-of-catalonias-finances/amp/
Madrid to take control of Catalonia’s finances

Spain having fun with Catalonia's referendum. They have pulled finances and are raiding printers to try and stop it.

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lalalonglegs · 16/09/2017 09:14

I heard about this on the radio yesterday - Catalan mayors who are seen to have helped organise or promote the referendum face arrest Shock. It's astonishing that the central government can't see how badly this will backfire.

howabout · 16/09/2017 09:19

eternal that is an interesting graphic. Roughly 200,000 UK pensioners spending their UK pension in Spain and France when they could be spending it in the UK economy. Also 200k is a bit lower for the number of pensioners abroad out of the total numbers usually quoted of about 1m than I would have guessed.

Also interesting to see the bulge in the graph when the Euro was too high.

woman11017 · 16/09/2017 09:21

Catalan situation is dangerous.

Regionalism and nationalism are major contributors to the rise of ultra conservatives. Look at Yugoslavia, as was. And us, now. Sad Cultural accommodation, economic egality and federalist democracy are the only way to subdue this one.

Regionalism and nationalism are the fig leafs of our little friends in the controlling committee.

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 09:30

Robert Hutton @ Robdothutton
What joy. Twelve hours after he says 350 million, we're back to "of course, when he says 350 million, he doesn't mean 350 million".

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Cailleach1 · 16/09/2017 09:39

Why is May travelling to Florence to make a speech about Brexit? Make use of the Freedom of Movement before she gets rid of it it goes. Will it be the usual room or hired venue with lots of Tories holding placards saying 'Strong and Stable' or some such? Will Michael Crick be allowed in? Who is paying for that bit of vanity? The vanity election already cost nigh on 140million plus 1+billion to the DUP.

Boris Johnson voted against the amendment to the Brexit vouching the money to the NHS. Can the general public be credulous enough to believe his renewed politicking that the 350million will be saved from being in the EU and he thinks it should preferably go to the NHS? I think Britain is in trouble if that is the case. Fool me twice.....

The reporting about Junkers speech is daft. He only set out his vision. The Council are the ones who set the agenda. You know, the elected gov'ts of the the member states. 2 hours and the only bit that is picked out is spun. He said he thinks that you (uk or farage) will come to regret Brexit, if he may say so. This is turned into 'we'll make sure you are punished so badly we will make you regret it'.

The UK is now obsessed with the EU and instead of just leaving, the usual suspects seem to say it needs to be destroyed. Thank god May is not going to Austria first. Otherwise the parallels. Maybe it is Florence 'cos she can bring the navy.

lalalonglegs · 16/09/2017 09:43

Asked why the venue had been picked, May’s spokesman said the prime minister “wanted to give a speech on the UK’s future relationship with Europe in its historical heart”. Hmm

I reckon she's hoping to visit the Prada factory outlet afterwards.