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Brexit

Westminstenders: The wrong homework

999 replies

HashiAsLarry · 31/08/2017 21:49

I'm no rtb but I'll give it a shot, though her efforts deserve much more than me.

The August negotiation round has, well, fizzled out in much the same way as any other. It's taken over a year to get to written position papers and there's still no clue as to a direction from the UK government.

Japan, meanwhile, is about to sign off on a deal with the EU. A deal we want to copy.

@faisalislam
^but if post brexit britain's trade deal with third biggest economy in world is to be based on Brussels' deal, what about rest? TTIP? Canada?
...when PM signs off statements like this on primacy of EU-third party deals, one wonders how temporary the temporary customs union will be^

The NHS is now launching a drive to recruit foreign GPs, like the ones that have left thanks to Brexit. It's a good job they'll be £350m a week better off now. Oh hang on...

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TheElementsSong · 04/09/2017 10:42

Flowers Hashi a chipped tibia sounds painful!

JustAnotherPoster00 · 04/09/2017 10:45
JustAnotherPoster00 · 04/09/2017 11:12
LurkingHusband · 04/09/2017 11:14

So true ?

Westminstenders: The wrong homework
JustAnotherPoster00 · 04/09/2017 11:23

Id vote for that LH

Melassa · 04/09/2017 11:45

Fuck me! Who is that Robert guy in the second video? So rude and so much shite spouted. And what's he doing in Turkey? Advising Erdogan, TM's new friend?

Placemarking Smile

RedToothBrush · 04/09/2017 11:54

Keep an eye on wording of reporting in UK for Brexit.

Michael Barnier has just tweeted the following:

I said: #Brexit = occasion to explain single market benefits in all countries, incl my own. We do not want to "educate" or "teach lessons".

RedToothBrush · 04/09/2017 11:57

So if UK farming disappears who is going to look after the countryside?

Brexit is all about those 'other' people who will do X, y and z.

We don't know who they are but like leprechauns they will spring from our soil and magically get things done.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/09/2017 12:01

Getting an FTA with the US in particular would be very difficult if the UK refuses to accept their low welfare factory farmed meat & poultry:

  • huge industrial farms where cattle are fed on corn, antibiotics, growth promoters, all swished in with a green dye to make it look better
  • chlorinated chicken, to compensate for poultry kept in unhealthy conditions and hence likely to have more infections

Trump wants to reduce trade deficits with other countries and the UK already has a big surplus wrt US trade

Trump won't tolerate an FTA that excludes the majority of US meat products - and from an industry that donates heavily to Republicans

TheElementsSong · 04/09/2017 12:01

We don't know who they are but like leprechauns they will spring from our soil and magically get things done.

That's why we all have to BeLeave as hard as possible! Every time a Remoaner Talks Britain Down, a Brexit leprechaun dies Sad and then who is going to take care of the countryside and man the frictionless free-trading borders? Eh? Eh?

BigChocFrenzy · 04/09/2017 12:03

The reason why there are the conflicting largescale studies USA vs EU on the dangers of eating red meat

  • OK in Europe, harmful in the USA -
is probably due to the very different "product" in the 2 regions.
LurkingHusband · 04/09/2017 12:16

Oh, look. More of the EU we're not leaving ...

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-offers-1bn-a-year-to-stay-in-the-eus-science-club-phnhrbvmq

Corcory · 04/09/2017 12:17

Peregrina - the article linked wasn't talking about free trade with the EU but open free trade with the rest of the world.

I am sure there are a few leavers who think unfettered free trade would be a great thing it all sounds wonderful in theory. But I would suggest that they haven't thought the full consequences of this and that many developed countries would want specific trade agreements anyway.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/09/2017 12:18

(paywall) Universities can’t afford to lose top academics

Warning: written by a damn expert - the provost of UCL

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/universities-can-t-afford-to-lose-top-academics-65rpl9xd0

Global rankings will show this week that the UK’s leading universities are among the best in the world

but it is a position that will be threatened if, as a result of Brexit, we lose these very academics who have helped put us there.

A significant contributor to that success
is the quality of the EU — and overseas — researchers and students
who have been attracted to work and study by the outward-looking and diverse intellectual communities within our universities.

What is also clear is that other universities outside the top rankings and in areas such as Singapore, China, the US and elsewhere in Europe,
are investing heavily in higher education and closing the gap with the world’s top 20
.....
If we don’t have continued freedom of movement for highly talented EU staff and students to enter the UK and if we don’t safeguard our close research links with EU universities and overseas partners,

then British universities could struggle to hold on to those academics and so maintain our position at the cutting edge of world research,
something which is vital for our future prosperity and the economy.

The key issue is how we retain and continue to attract this young talent.
When you look at our top professors,
many came here as PhD students or post-doctoral researchers and built their careers here.

If we lose talent at that early career level, the consequences will be felt far beyond it in the longer term.

One of my deepest concerns is that in a post-Brexit world
it could be many years before the full repercussions of losing talent at that crucial entry point becomes starkly obvious.

The warning signs are already there.

This summer UCL’s school of life and medical sciences held its annual competition for research excellence fellowships
— awards that offer scientists starting out on their academic careers three years’ salary with an additional £50,000 research costs.

Normally up to a third of applicants are from EU institutions.
This year there were none.
....
These up-and-coming academics from the EU are not leaving the UK yet but they are worried.
And
temptations are starting to be put in their way.

I am told by senior members of the European professorial group that anecdotally

as many as 95 per cent of UCL’s senior researchers from other EU countries
may have already been approached by overseas institutions.

At UCL more than 20 per cent of our academic staff are from the EU,
with 11 per cent from the EU across the entire sector.
Some 16 per cent of UCL’s students — more than 6,000 — are from the EU.

Across the 24 research-intensive universities in the Russell Group,
it is noticeable how many of these EU staff are in economically valuable and strategically important subjects,
passing on their expertise, skills and knowledge to young British students and researchers.

These include economics (where 38 per cent are from the EU),
modern languages (35 per cent),
mathematics (31 per cent),
IT, systems sciences and computer software engineering (29 per cent),
chemical engineering and physics (27 per cent)
and biosciences (26 per cent).
....
Firstly, EU academics, staff and students are looking for greater clarity on what their rights on freedom of movement will be
and in particular that there is continued mobility between the EU and the UK
without bureaucratic visa burdens.
....
Secondly, the fantastic achievements in British higher education research have been achieved against a background of 42 years’ interaction with the EU.
....
Thirdly, it is unrealistic to include overseas students in the net migration figures, as has been previously proposed.

Official research last month demolished previous claims that it was as many as 100,000 overseas students who stayed on after their visas expired
when in fact it is fewer than 5,000.

HashiAsLarry · 04/09/2017 12:20

It's beginning to look a lot more costly to stay out of the EU than stay in it Grin

Re chipped tibias. I do these things so you don't have to. It's a service i provide for free Wink. Certainly don't recommend doing this. It could be a lot worse though, could be a full on break so I'm trying to remind myself of that when the drugs wear off.

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BigChocFrenzy · 04/09/2017 12:21

I've posted before about the scientific brain drain (of which I am a part) from UK tech companies of U.K. citizens to Germany, which is continuing.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/09/2017 12:22

Poor Hashi I hope your paw repairs itself asap Flowers

Peregrina · 04/09/2017 12:37

Peregrina - the article linked wasn't talking about free trade with the EU but open free trade with the rest of the world.

I was aware of that, but remain to be convinced that the Government's main aim isn't to reduce the bottom line. If that means cheap food, from countries with poor standards, so be it, as far as they are concerned. Nothing I have seen about the Tory Government has convinced me otherwise. A consumer outcry might.

BiglyBadgers · 04/09/2017 13:52

Looks like UK May be looking to increase frequency of talks sessions with EU.

Downing Street said Britain is ready to intensify the Brexit talks. Currently talks are taking place in Brussels every four weeks, but Politico Europe says today that British officials have requested “continuous talks in Brussels starting September 18 and then rolling week-to-week until a breakthrough is achieved”. The prime minister’s spokewoman did not directly confirm this, but she said:

We are ready to intensify negotiations. Nothing has been formally agreed but that is something that we can discuss. Typically, with negotiations, as time goes on you see the pace pick up. Certainly we wouldn’t rule that out, but nothing has been agreed yet.

www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/sep/04/anas-sarwar-announces-bid-for-scottish-labour-leadership-politics-live

lalalonglegs · 04/09/2017 14:08

Is that practical? Doesn't Barnier have to debrief the EU27 etc about lack of progress after each round and await further instruction? The UK agreed to carrying out negotiations in this way within a two-year window and now seems to be panicking that negotiations only take place once a month within a vanishingly short time frame. Maybe it would be better to use the time to negotiate rather than grandstand?

GlassOfPort · 04/09/2017 14:10

LH, I couldn'r read the Times article in full, but

The Brexit Department will set out its proposal and name the agencies in which it wants to keep participating

Sounds suspiciously like cherry picking which the EU said is off the table to me

BiglyBadgers · 04/09/2017 14:20

Good points lala. I wonder if this is another thing to use to blame the EU for being so unreasonable when they refuse to spend all their time mucking about with Davis.

HashiAsLarry · 04/09/2017 14:24

I think Barnier said he was willing to intensify talks at the last press conference.

It's like when you have a great idea and your boss calls it stupid, then two days later says they have a great idea which is your so called stupid idea, word for word.

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RedToothBrush · 04/09/2017 14:24

Is that practical?

No the EU has other business to attend to. Brexit is not its priority.

As we are about to discover.

Don't forget the deadline for Brexit is a self imposed one thanks to May's decision to trigger a50.

It's beginning to look a lot more costly to stay out of the EU than stay in it

Gosh, if only Norway had told us that even being EEA is more expensive than being in the EU...

LurkingHusband · 04/09/2017 15:09

No the EU has other business to attend to. Brexit is not its priority.

and (as non-English articles clearly demonstrate) it's not even on the radar in France, Italy or Germany, let alone a priority.

My impression is that the EU member states (that is the rEU27) are quite happy to trust the EU to do it's job regarding Brexit. Which conveniently holes any putative UK "divide and conquer" strategy below the waterline.

Has anyone else noticed a subtle reversal of rhetoric ?

Last year, it seemed Leavers all said "so, where's all this doom and gloom then ????" and Remainers had to say Brexit hasn't started yet !

Now the common theme is: Remainers: "So, where are all these wonderful deals then ????" and it's Leavers having to say Brexit hasn't started yet !

Which would be fine, but they told us June 24th that it had started.

Make you mind up, guys ....

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