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Brexit

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Westminstenders: Boom. The Brexit Backlash starts to hit.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/08/2017 00:49

So it turns out that immigration figures that stated students overstayed were wrong. The home office knew this. And sat on it. Since 2015. Under Theresa.

That smells a bit doesn't it?

Imagine it: "Let's do lunch Paul. I'll cover up and give you a nice immigration story for your front page. In return, crown me PM."

Then tonight BOOM. Labour look like they have made a move. Soft very swishy Brexit. Even less brexity than the Beano Brexit that the Tories have been trying to announce on the quiet over the summer whilst Brexiteers are on holiday.

amp.theguardian.com/global/2017/aug/26/labour-calls-for-lengthy-transitional-period-post-brexit
Labour makes dramatic shift on Brexit and single market
Party opens clear divide with Tories, with support for free movement and paying into EU budgets for up to four years

Labour is to announce a dramatic policy shift by backing continued membership of the EU single market beyond March 2019, when Britain leaves the EU, establishing a clear dividing line with the Tories on Brexit for the first time.

In a move that positions it decisively as the party of “soft Brexit”, Labour will support full participation in the single market and customs union during a lengthy “transitional period” that it believes could last between two and four years after the day of departure, it is to announce on Sunday.

This will mean that under a Labour government the UK would continue to abide by the EU’s free movement rules, accept the jurisdiction of the European court of justice on trade and economic issues, and pay into the EU budget for a period of years after Brexit, in the hope of lessening the shock of leaving to the UK economy. In a further move that will delight many pro-EU Labour backers, Jeremy Corbyn’s party will also leave open the option of the UK remaining a member of the customs union and single market for good, beyond the end of the transitional period.

Why would Labour suddenly do this? It's not just because of the youth vote. What about their leave voters?

Faisal Islam on the subject:
2. On Labour Leavers is very very interesting and involves quite the psephological judgement re the election....
...the calculation appears to be that Labour Leave voters had the chance to vote for Theresa May's brand of Brexit, and bar 5 seats, said No
Was that because Lableave voters were already signalled "hard Brexit"? Or many millions such voters much more concerned about other things?

Have Labour been polling their voters on this?

Theresa has also apparently set her sell by date: Friday 30th August 2019.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-sets-date-shell-quit-11061894.amp
Theresa May sets date she'll quit as Prime Minister - giving herself time to see Britain through Brexit

The longer the transition and the squishier it gets, the more the more you wonder.

Mr Barnier will enjoy his coffee and newspapers tomorrow as he prepares for round two of Brexit talks starting next week.

The question on his mind most: Will David Davis remember to bring his notes this time?

OP posts:
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TheElementsSong · 30/08/2017 20:32

Excellent stuff Bigly, good luck!

woman12345 · 30/08/2017 20:32

responsibilization of care
New phrase to me, but an old idea. Thanks arborea and
women are "choosing" to stay at home and do it
quentin yes, who hasn't been encouraged by employers to take paid leave to care for older relatives and children? Hmm
www.commissiononcare.org/2016/05/17/the-gendered-nature-of-care/

lalalonglegs · 30/08/2017 20:40

Wow, Bigly, that's fantastic. Good luck with it all Star.

HashiAsLarry · 30/08/2017 20:44

Awesome stuff bigly
Good luck
Though why the concept of there being people on leave at this point whilst on a mums based forum is confusing suggests need of a better crib sheet.

BiglyBadgers · 30/08/2017 20:44

randomly Grin

OlennasWimple · 30/08/2017 20:46

Re W Hague - I'm reminded of Lord Avebury's comment when losing his seat (as Eric Lubbock) ""In 1962 the wise, far-seeing people of Orpington elected me as their Member; in 1970 the fools threw me out". At least he was joking...

Re caring responsibilities: yes, yes, yes - when ministers say "people" in this context, they mean "women". The burden falls so disproportionately onto women, that it is a scandal that successive governments fail to recognize this.

Re contributing to this thread: I'm an unemployed lay about (not in the UK so not taking any benefits), and enjoy arguing about Article 50 for the LOLs Smile

BiglyBadgers · 30/08/2017 20:46

Thanks for the lucks everyone. The way the NHS is going I may need as much as I can get Grin

thecatfromjapan · 30/08/2017 20:52

I'm ignoring my children - in good mumsnetter style. Smile

Bigly - Wow! Good luck. Smile

woman12345 · 30/08/2017 20:56

@nickreeves9876
Interesting: Tory Brexiter John Redwood showing remarkable sympathy for Putin's aggression against Ukraine

www.getreading.co.uk/news/local-news/john-redwood-mp-ukraine-very-6791619

@charlessr1956 1m
Seems to be a 'badge of honour' for extreme right to support Putin. You would think there was money involved?

Surely not. Hmm And for old times sake Grin

BiglyBadgers · 30/08/2017 20:57

I work in fintech in London. I have a BSc.

So tell us, is brexit going to be good for fintech in London?

taytopotato · 30/08/2017 21:05

All the best Bigly. Mental health nursing is a tough but rewarding a rewarding career.

QuentinSummers · 30/08/2017 21:06

I can feel a bit smug, today I posted on a very long train commute to my important job. Halo
I mean really FFS. what clearly doesn't get why anyone would post if they weren't being paid

QuentinSummers · 30/08/2017 21:09

Sorry, I meant that. Duh

QuentinSummers · 30/08/2017 21:15

Great article woman thanks for sharing. My blood was boiling a few months back listening to some idiot Tory trying to shame "people " into taking responsibility for caring rather than selfishly abandoning their families while off gallivanting at work.
All the while ignoring that it is the Govt that has encouraged women into work to gain economic growth and increased consumerism. Now we are all trapped there by the need for two wage earners to cover household costs and somehow that's being deemed selfish.
We really need a radical societal overhaul to give everyone time to work and care (men as well as women). Maybe Brexit is just the trigger we need!.....

thecatfromjapan · 30/08/2017 21:22

Hashi "Though why the concept of there being people on leave at this point whilst on a mums based forum is confusing suggests need of a better crib sheet."

Grin Grin Grin

TheElementsSong · 30/08/2017 21:31

people on leave at this point whilst on a mums based forum is confusing suggests need of a better crib sheet

Grin Grin

Thatssomecatchthatcatch22 · 30/08/2017 21:34

Bigly
So tell us, is brexit going to be good for fintech in London
It's gonna be awesome, Bigly.

mathanxiety · 30/08/2017 21:36

That

Controlled immigration has always been possible under EU rules.

So has restricting and/or regulating access of EU immigrants to benefits and housing.

ec.europa.eu/immigration/who-does-what/more-information/explaining-the-rules-why-are-there-eu-rules-and-national-rules_en
Exceptions to EU-wide rules
EU-wide immigration rules generally apply in 25 out of the EU’s 28 countries. The following exceptions apply:

Denmark does not apply EU-wide rules which relate to immigration, visa and asylum policies.

Ireland and the United Kingdom choose, on a case-by-case basis, whether or not to adopt EU rules on immigration, visa and asylum policies.

Official immigration statistics published by the UK government have revealed that applications for benefits by EU citizens had been falling dramatically long before the UK voted to leave the European Union – a decision based in large part around concerns about immigration.

The UK took a series of steps in 2013 and 2014 – which were permitted under EU rules – to tighten checks and add some new restrictions on when EU citizens living in the UK could claim out-of-work benefits.

I am wondering what you are basing your theories about immigrant numbers on.
www.ft.com/content/1967efce-b62c-11e6-961e-a1acd97f622d
Bottom lines -

  • figures are unreliable
  • the problem (if it exists) does not involve students from the EU
  • the UK could regulate and restrict student movement into and out of the UK but does not - regulation is possible under EU rules and under UK laws governing nonEU immigration or student visas
  • Brexit will not therefore have the impact Leavers think it will have.
  • Brexit will however make it possible for countries the UK thinks it can cut trade deals with to insist on whatever number of immigrants/students, etc they would like to see moving to the UK, and it will be hard for the UK to turn down quid pro quo clauses, though Theresa May has already stuck her foot in it with India by refusing to countenance the Indian expectation that a trade deal would include an immigration deal.

The PM has never been one to let facts interfere with her schtick, so she has continued to bray her plainly unfounded notion that masses of forrin students are overrunning the UK. What could be her motive? Clearly her words have inspired your thoughts on immigration - I wonder how many others are inclined toward uncritical acceptance of Tory and UKIP propaganda?

(BTW - Your syntax is occasionally reminiscent of the syntax of another Brexiter I have encountered on MN.)

Thatssomecatchthatcatch22 · 30/08/2017 21:37

the cat from Japanese
I'm ignoring my children
The need for care workers from Eastern Europe is clear to me now.

woman12345 · 30/08/2017 21:38

More Russian links to con kips.

Westminstenders: Boom. The Brexit Backlash starts to hit.
Thatssomecatchthatcatch22 · 30/08/2017 21:39

Mathanxiety
Your syntax is occasionally reminiscent of the syntax of another Brexiter I have encountered on MN

Do you have a syntax similarity analysis algorithm? You could make some money with that!

Thatssomecatchthatcatch22 · 30/08/2017 21:41

Controlled immigration has always been possible under EU rules.

Why do they keep calling "Freedom of Movement" ? Why not "Control of Movement"?

TheElementsSong · 30/08/2017 21:42

Your syntax is occasionally reminiscent of the syntax of another Brexiter I have encountered on MN

Are you thinking of the same charming individual I'm thinking of? Grin

Motheroffourdragons · 30/08/2017 21:42

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

HashiAsLarry · 30/08/2017 21:43

Why do they keep calling "Freedom of Movement" ? Why not "Control of Movement
Because they clearly gave some people far too much credit in the intelligence department