Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter

[RedToothBrush]

Nigel Farage @ Nigel_Farage
Cannot believe we're seeing Nazi salutes in 21st century America.

Yeah, that's what we said on 16th June 2016, when some dickhead stood in front of a poster.

The thing is, what Farage says with faux surprise isn't unusual or isolated to him. It's widespread. It's perhaps the norm rather than the exception in many circles.

It's represents a total lack of self awareness. It represents the disconnect that what comes out of your mouth tends to have an effect on the people around you, whether intentioned that way or not when you talk about 'others' or 'not belonging'.

It's a direct effect of nationalism.

Patriotism seems to be something that people have totally lost the plot with and don't understand. It's used as a defence for nationalism. It is the last defence of the scoundrel. Patriotism and being pro-EU or not being a racist dick are not mutually exclusive, though you'd be forgiven for thinking differently these days.

I think a lot of people will sit and go, "Look at America, that is awful. I'm glad we are not like that".

Except we are far more than we realise. Grenfell says much about that.

There's an phrase and Southern Wolves and Northern Wolves when it comes to racism in America. The UK is like the Northern Wolf. Sly and silver tongued to justify and hide racism because 'Look they are worse than us. We are the good guys'.

A bit like saying, you talked to an EU citizen and they were just as racist as me, so Brexit is ok.

It's the twisted desperation to justify the othering rather than take responsibility for enabling and emboldening racism. Then dressing it up as some legitimate political cause which actually you have zero understanding or comprehension of the consequences of.

Brexit has some deep roots in Nazi type fantasies. You can not separate the idea that Britain is superior and Brits are better than Europeans from too much Brexit logic. The Empire was not a pretty thing for much of the world. It's worrying.

Not to mention we've had a right wing attack on a group of people outside a mosque in this fashion before the US had that attack yesterday.

Let's not think that because we haven't had blokes with tiki torches providing a photographic opportunity and theatre for the TV producer that we are somehow 'better'. Or not as bad as America.

The only real difference between them and us is the brash openness about it and the fact they have a bunch of guns.

This was predictable. Indeed I expected and I expect more. There will be more and it will get far, far worse in the US. Yesterday was just the start. Trump wants it. He will fuel it. He will capitalise from it. Yes your mate Donald loves a bit of bigotry, Nig.

There no guarantees it won't happen here for various reasons. It just is characterised in a slightly different way because we are British and don't really do brash in anything as it's not our way.

It's too easy for Farage. Or Johnson. Or May. Or whoever to just walk away and innocently say they are shocked and bear no responsibility because they don't wave Nazi flags about.

You don't have to do that, to share the same values or believe the same thing. Salutes and flags are just branding. A repackaged version for the 21st century is even more dangerous.

We won't forget who Farage hangs out with or courts for publicity and attention. Farage only says and does what he thinks he can get away with. That's part of the ugly truth.

We still have not even started to confront the relationship between racism and Brexit. Indeed, much seems to be happening to suggest that after blaming EU, that there are a Brexit opportunities for scapegoating opening up.

For me yesterday was depressing not because it happened, but because we saw it coming and because our country is in denial about being the same.

Farage is the very personification of it.

Swedish Detention letters sent in error
Imagine if they sent these out to random Uk citizens

The Home Office is so unfit for any purpose.
It's created several horror stories which frighten expats and are then circulated in their home country's media.

The HO is creating a quiet undercurrent of alarm & disgust among the public in some E27 countries, which is more likely to make Barnier & co take a hard line wrt expat rights,
because he - and the EU Parliament - may not trust the UK to protect them

Insufficient progress on expats would delay trade talks

Crikey
Foreign Investors could sue UK govt over Brexit losses !

The govt are aware and Fox has already acknowledged this risk:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-trade-fox-idUKKBN1A52NB

"Asked if the government could face dispute settlement cases from companies whose investments are damaged by Brexit,
he said it was preparing for any eventuality."

This law lecturer analyses in detail and says there is legal precedent (Spain) -

https://www.law.ox.ac.uk/business-law-blog/blog/2017/07/how-protest-brexit-investment-tribunal

The hot legal topic of 2017 is
whether an investor feeling aggrieved by Britain’s decision to leave the EU could
bring a claimm* in an investor state dispute settlement (ISDS) tribunal.

Let us consider the case of foreign financial firms that established themselves in the City of London to take advantage of the UK’s much lauded position as the centre of European finance

The government’s decision to interpret the Referendum result as a mandate to leave the single market heralds a fundamental change to the regulatory environment under which firms were established in the UK.

As I argue in my recently published paper,
foreign owned financials could seek legal redress,

arguing that the changes brought about by Brexit (from the point of exit onwards) will
violate legitimate expectations protected by Bilateral Investment Treaties (BIT) the UK has signed with their country of origin.
......
A state is deemed to be allowed to regulate
so long as it does not fundamentally and abruptly alter the whole regulatory environment causing major losses to the investor.
....
One could argue that leaving the single market,
losing the financial passport,
and losing market access,
is an abrupt, wholesale upending of the entire regulatory background of an investment,
rendering such investment practically worthless.

The message for those thinking of pursuing claims against the British government for Brexit is clear:
the more drastic the policy change, the better the chance of success.
Call your lawyers.

Charles Grant @ CER_Grant
In BXL today EU officials are adamant: if UK leaves customs union and single market, there WILL be controls on Irish border @CER_EU

[Offers the popcorn around Westminstenders]

Pete North's latest blog post.

peterjnorth.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/still-more-heat-than-light.html

Is it salted?

The popcorn, ^

It seems businesses are in the same boat as Scotland, in that they relied on HMGs intention to stay in the EU.

Election Data @ election_data
Feel like we're hurtling at speed towards a transport announcement at the Tory conference in Manchester next month

Sounds about right...

Butter salted. Like you get at the cinema.

The sweet stuff is rubbish. it doesn't squeak in your teeth the same way.

Home Office cockups may have exaggerated immigration figures (- and helped cause Brexit ?)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/23/immigration-figures-review-new-checks-suggest-numbers-far-lower/

The Home Office has ordered an official review of Britain's immigration figures after new exit checks at the borders found
there may be fewer immigrants in the country than previously thought.

The Government will reveal on Thursday that new border checks introduced last year found

97 percent of international students - one of the biggest groups of immigrants - left after finishing their studies.

It had previously been thought that tens of thousands of international students remain in the country illegally and the disclosure that the majority are leaving casts serious doubt on the reliability of the official immigration statistics.

The immigration figures [ yes, the official ones that the press scream about ]
are based on relatively small-scale passenger surveys at airports,
even though they are one of the most politically sensitive pieces of data which dominated recent election campaigns and the Brexit referendum.

Whataloada Cockups & Coverups !

Remind ourselves which minister was in charge of the Home Office for so many years

(paywall) Home Office hid study warning of terror and crime risks after Brexit

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/home-office-warned-of-brexit-threat-b6j6vk66v

Theresa May’s Home Office drew up an unpublished document that revealed how Britons could be more at risk of terrorism and crime after Brexit.

The paper, prepared by officials with help from MI5 and MI6,
warned that leaving the EU would make the UK less secure from “terrorism, criminality and illegal migration”.

Senior figures involved in compiling the document, which has been leaked to The Times,
maintained that all of its fears were justified.
They said it set out the details of the challenge for ministers involved in the Brexit negotiations.

The 49-page paper was produced in the run-up to the referendum last year but then dropped in a row over campaign tactics.

Mrs May oversaw the document, which started in the Home Office, according to two sources.

.... the document warned that UK-EU security co-operation could be “less effective or slower” once Britain left the block.

“Co-operation with EU countries would continue if the UK were to leave the EU.

But none of the tools for co-operation EU countries have available with countries outside the EU
match the speed, efficiency, and cost-effectiveness of the tools that are available for co-operation between EU members,”

In particular, the report highlighted the Schengen Information System (SIS), a database providing law enforcement alerts on wanted criminals, suspected terrorists, missing people and stolen or missing property.

It stated that SIS has proved to have “significant public protection benefits”, alerting police and border staff to 769 suspects in a year.

It warned that “no non-EU country that is not a member of the Schengen border-free area has an agreement to be part of SIS”.
....
The document did not rule out that Britain would be able to strike a number of security agreements with nations in the EU after Brexit
but stressed that some would be more difficult than others.

It added that there may be a dangerous interim period when the UK’s voice would be missing during key meetings in Brussels.

It also pointed out that during the 2015 Tunisia beach gun attack,
in which 30 British citizens were among the 38 people killed,
Britons benefited from pooled EU resources in the emergency response.

“UK citizens in a crisis situation were thus able to benefit from deployment of EU resources and expertise
in a situation which would have placed significant demand on UK resources in isolation,”

The document was ditched because of the political furore over so-called “project fear”,
as well as the response to David Cameron’s speech about the possibility of a world war post-Brexit and amid growing scepticism about experts.

Immigration's down ( is that a good thing?); we're asking to stay in ECJ jurisdiction; EU requirements for single market will 'prevent' NI hard border?; Neil's off Sunday politics

Immigration figures being wrong don't really affect the issue. Some people voted Leave because there were too many, usually black or brown skinned ones at that, in areas with few immigrants. There only needed to be one Muslim family move into their street and there would be 'too many'.

Not MN Leave posters of course, because we were assured that they weren't voting on the basis of controlling immigration.

Thank you all so much for these threads. I notice the Brexiteers haven't been on to refute any of the recent posts. Personally, I can cope with Trump or Brexit but not both at the same time. I'm focusing on Trump at the moment but do keep an eye on these threads. I have read much more sense about Brexit on Mumsnet than I have in any of the MSM. Thank you again x

Sky had a fellow on their news programme. The head of the knights of the KKK. He had a segment where he complained about history being erased and had a gripe about a few things which the KKK mustn't like. The media must regret all those old Nazis from WWII who were hiding out in South America are dead: the news programmes could give them airspace like that fellow. You know, their ideology being just another view an' all. What is suddenly making the views of these guys or anything about their hate filled raison d'etre fit to report as just news.

I think the times are are most strange if the head of the 'knights' (sic) of the KKK is on mainstream news 'discussing' current affairs as if his stance had some sort of legitimacy.

Not MN Leave posters of course, because we were assured that they weren't voting on the basis of controlling immigration

Except all the times when they were , y'know when we asked why we couldn't go for the EEA/EFTA-type option, it was all "but then we can't control our borderzzzzz" then immediately afterwards "how dare you suggest even one Leave voter might have been xenophobic grrrr"

My favourite, still, is the "I voted Leave because the EU are racist whites-only blah blah and we want everyone in the world to have equal status, take that I have out-PC-ed you liberal lefties". It's a winning argument. Except, well, isn't it kinda r-word to sweepingly assume that EU citizenship is a white people thing? And then anyway it turns out that what they really meant, as we have seen with the recent Home Office Go Home or Face Detention letters, was that they want everyone however legitimate to be harassed and terrified into uprooting their lives. Very equal.

There was no mistake at all with the letters sent to EU citizens.
This is just the carry on from the story with the PR cards and people being told they needed to take measures to leave the country.

In effect, just using EU citizens as bargaining chips. Again.

Of course, this will never be acknowledge by the government.

But will give a nice start to the next round of discussion with the EU. And is preparing everyone (EU citizens AND British citizens) to the idea of choosing and deporting EU citizens in the near future.
It's making the idea (that was rejected by even the strongest brexiters during the campaign) that even EU citizens that have been living here for years, are married to a brit, work etc... CAN (and will?) be sent back home.

This emerging story has largely slipped under the media radar. Given that housing is probably near the top of our country's problems that's staggering. This is social housing and infrastructure such as hospitals. EIB provide cheap and easy funding with favourable terms to the UK.

Paul Lewis‏*@paullewismoney*

£6.9bn investment in UK last year funded by EIB but no more since Art.50 triggered
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-eu-bank-cuts-off-cash-for-british-building-projects-s2qvc66z2?shareToken=55acd6864e89a11c0a3cb2ce4c1b980b
European Investment Bank cuts off cash for British building projects due to Brexit

(Article is currently not paywalled)

The Times has learnt that the European Investment Bank, which financed £6.9 billion of public infrastructure projects in Britain last year, has effectively imposed a moratorium on new long-term loans to the UK.

The decision was taken after the government triggered Article 50 in March. Since then only three UK projects have had funding signed off and no projects have been financed since June.

In the first three months of the year the EIB approved nine projects worth a total of £1.4 billion.

The moratorium has been confirmed by sources within the bank and public sector institutions in the UK that had previously been beneficiaries of its loans, but it has not been formally announced.

Peter Apps‏*@PeteApps*

On the whole EIB/Brexit thing this was our piece which never got picked up (a week before the referendum)

www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/news/eib-would-reduce-sector-funding-if-leave-wins-47287
EIB would reduce sector funding if Leave wins
From 16/06/16

The European Investment Bank has warned it would “not be feasible” to provide its current level of social housing funding in the UK in the event of Brexit.

Declan Fahy‏*@DeclanFahy3*

The fact that EIB has stopped funding projects in U.K. With no commitment from Govt to backfill should be a wake up call

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-23/u-k-warns-eu-not-to-play-brexit-hardball-over-investment-bank
U.K. Warns EU Not to Play Brexit Hardball Over Investment Bank

Britain won’t be part of EIB after it leaves the EU in 2019
Government sees leverage in the amount it provides to lender

Britain will warn the European Union next week not to make greater financial demands over its contributions to the bloc’s investment bank, a person familiar with Brexit negotiations said.

The U.K. contributes about 16 percent of the capital in the European Investment Bank, which the EU uses to fund infrastructure projects.

That means that in theory Prime Minister Theresa May could seek reimbursement on its investment of some 10 billion euros ($11.8 billion) when the U.K. pulls out.

There are good reasons why the U.K. would not want to follow through on that: it would affect some buildings and roads in the country that depend on those communal funds.

Lets think about this for a second. It sounds like we get a good deal here. We want to carry on getting a good deal, but we don't want to be part of the EIB. The EIB no longer providing an investment on long term projects because we have given notice on membership seems quite reasonable. How the fuck do the government even come up with logic???

Also:
www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/pound-to-euro-exchange-rate-brexit-fears-see-sterling-slump-to-eightyear-low-a3618891.html
Pound to euro exchange rate: Brexit fears see sterling slump to eight-year low

www.politics.co.uk/news/2017/08/24/sadiq-khan-says-police-are-duty-bound-to-report-victims-of-c
Sadiq Khan says police are "duty bound" to report victims of crime to the Home Office

Sadiq Khan has been urged to rethink his position on victims of crime being handed over to the Home Office for immigration enforcement, after he said that police officers were "duty bound" to report them.

and

The human rights organisation Amnesty UK has now called on Khan to rethink his position. The director of the group's Refugee and Migrant Rights programme Steve Valdez-Symonds said:

"Amnesty urges the London mayor to reconsider his position. We must not allow the UK to be a country in which many people cannot trust public services, including the police, to help and protect them or their loved ones because they fear being reported to immigration authorities.

"When victims of domestic violence, human trafficking and other crimes are too afraid to seek help, they and their family are even more easily preyed upon by individual abusers and organised criminals."

This makes no sense. Victims can't report criminals because they fear being deported, allowing criminals to continue doing what they are doing.

We don't want illegal immigration. So lets make sure the best witnesses to convict and stop those traffickers don't report them. How dumb as fuck are we?

"Pound to euro exchange rate: Brexit fears see sterling slump to eight-year low"

That has no relation to Brexit, whatsoever. I forget which Brexiteer said this on TV. Currency exchange rates go up and down. Like the weather. But unlike the weather, there are no reasons for it. Up and down, unrelated to influence from anything.

So, I was glad that Brexiteer (forget which genius) cleared that up for us. In case anyone thought it was related to Brexit.

We don't want illegal immigration. So lets make sure the best witnesses to convict and stop those traffickers don't report them. How dumb as fuck are we?

What make you think your first statement applies to people in power ? I suspect they really want illegal immigration. Lots of it. How else can they have such cheap domestic labour ?

In this case, it's not unreasonable to suggest conspiracy over cock up ...

I'm sure there's a Bird/Fortune sketch along those lines ....

www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/the-prisons-inspectorate-when-the-recommendations-are-ignored-what-is-the-point-a7900321.html
The prisons inspectorate: When the recommendations are ignored what is the point?
Inspection of HM prisons costs taxpayers as much as £3.5m a year. It’s a small sum in the grand scheme of things, but when it comes to improving our crisis-hit prison system, is it worth the investment?

Why the fuck are we doing this then ignoring its findings??? This is nuts.

Re Net Migration Figures out today. I'm let to believe there is a sharp increase in Brits leaving, but I can't find a credible source for this atm. If true this is perhaps worrying.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-41030219/it-s-unfair-i-came-to-the-uk-aged-six

How many other people are in this situation ?

To clarify the above point. We already know that EU citizens are leaving and this is bad. The Brits leaving also potentially represents a further brain drain going on. (Also likely to be partners of EU citz).

Why the fuck are we doing this then ignoring its findings??? This is nuts.

Because the UK doesn't do evidence based anything.

There have been innumerable reports, studies etc over the years. But unless they reinforced the party line, they're ignored.

Just look at our byzantine (and by that, I don't mean "working") drugs laws, compared with all the experts advice.