The Brexit Arms. All welcome.

[surferjet]

So.....how are we all?

Read through your links Caroline, at no place does it say anything about member nations giving up soveriengty on education.

Even when it comes to the core competancies it says that they are "recommendations".

The EU does not take sovereignty over education in the UK, but your misinformation and desperation to prove so is a little endearing.

Love the Daily Mash link above, shall we do some more?

www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/we-thought-brexit-was-a-type-of-wafer-biscuit-admit-pensioners-20170807133553

And one which resonates particlularly when you read Caroline's posts:

www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/uk-exhausted-from-arguing-with-brexit-fkwits-20160713110699

MILLIONS of Britons are physically exhausted after spending what feels like decades arguing with people who do not understand anything.

Many ‘remain’ voters feel they need a holiday or a long sleep after the tiring experience of trying to reason with people who completely reject logic or evidence.

Martin Bishop said: “Whenever I spoke to my uncle Trevor about Brexit he’d just make some fatuous comment like, ‘I suppose you wish the Germans had won the war, then!’

“It was incredibly knackering because he’d just respond to everything with random bullshit, like when he said the economy would be fine because we’d ‘just think of new products to sell’.”

Emma Bradford said: “I’m worn out from talking to Brexiters because a lot of them think listing everything that pisses them off is the same as a rational debate.

“Also they just ignore anything they don’t like. When I explained to my mum that the EU doesn’t make our laws her reasoned response was to go and water the geraniums.”

However Brexit supporter Norman Steele said: “I’ve had lots of well-informed, reasonable debates with Project Fear’s brainwashed sheeple who hate their country.”

Just awaiting Caroline's long, dull, rambling reply including spurious links as to why she is right.

You aren't, just FYI.

Id agree with long and dull bathilda . Oh how we wish we didnt have to put up with this rubbish on a cyclical basis.

But for those who do like long and dull.....heres the LSEs take on higher ed, and how theyre stacking their position not only on existing EU law (and 'sovereignty', though that word, like 'army', is a big no no in political circles) but increasing the remit of the EU.

Just thought itd make a change throwing a lefty view in here. Dont take my word for it, go look yourselves.

http://www.lse.ac.uk/europeanInstitute/LEQS%20Discussion%20Paper%20Series/LEQSPaper50.pdf

I 'll read the link.

But I do love how you link to authorities when it suits.

Remind me what the LSE's position was on Brexit?

Lightening the mood a tad, mean while, as Charlottesville rocks from events on saturday, the New York Times published this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/opinion/why-women-had-better-sex-under-socialism.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

Now we're talking areas that may swing my political affiliations!!!!! Can we get more under Jezza? If so, I think I may be in.

Fear you may be suffering an irony bypass bathilda

"Remind me what the LSE's position was on Brexit?"

No idea. Did they have a 'position'?

Well lets be honest, none of those guys "protesting" on Saturday get any, most of them probably never have.

Its why they felt the need to protest. :)

Article is interesting, but it doesn't really support the idea that the EU has sovereignty over eduction, some EU laws like not being able to deny someone from a member state access to education on grounds of nationality do have an effect. In fact it calls for greater EU influence over education.

"When I explained to my mum that the EU doesn’t make our laws her reasoned response was to go and water the geraniums."

I love that. So going to use it.

The LSE position on Brexit: Part 1

"A reduction in immigration from the European Union (EU) following a vote for Brexit would not lead to any improvement in living standards for those born in the UK. Cuts in EU immigration would not offset the big fall in UK living standards caused by the reduction in trade and investment that would result from Brexit. "

The researchers highlight the empirical evidence showing conclusively that EU immigration has not had significantly adverse effects on average employment, wages, inequality or public services at the local level for people born in the UK. Falls in average real wages of UK-born workers are more closely associated with the biggest economic crash for more than 80 years.

Ending free movement of labour would damage the national economy. First, it would curtail the country's full access to the Single Market. Second, it would lower GDP per person since EU immigrants have higher employment rates than the UK-born and therefore help to reduce the budget deficit. And third, there is evidence that lower immigration harms national productivity.

The new CEP report shows that:
Between 1995 and 2015, the number of immigrants from other EU countries living in the UK more than tripled from 0.9 million to 3.3 million. In the year to September 2015, EU net immigration to the UK was 172,000, only just below the figure of 191,000 for non-EU immigrants.

The big increase in EU immigration occurred after the 'A8' East European countries joined in 2004. In 2015, about a third of EU immigrants lived in London, compared with only 11% of the UK-born. 29% of EU immigrants were Polish.

EU immigrants are more educated, younger, more likely to be in work and less likely to claim benefits than the UK-born. About 44% have some form of higher education compared with only 23% of the UK-born.

Many people are concerned that immigration reduces the pay and job chances of the UK-born since this means more competition for jobs. But immigrants also consume goods and services and this increased demand helps to create more employment opportunities. So we need empirical evidence to settle the issue of whether the economic impact of immigration is bad or good for people born in the UK.

Our new evidence shows that the areas of the UK with large increases in EU immigration did not suffer greater falls in the jobs and pay of UK-born workers. The big falls in wages after 2008 are due to the global financial crisis and a weak economic recovery, not to immigration.

There is also little effect of EU immigration on inequality through reducing the pay and jobs of less skilled UK workers. Changes in wages and joblessness for less skilled UK-born workers show little correlation with changes in EU immigration.

EU immigrants pay more in taxes than they use public services and therefore they help to reduce the budget deficit. Immigrants do not have a negative effect on local services such as education, health or social housing; nor do they have any effect on social instability as indicated by crime rates.

The refugee crisis is unrelated to our EU membership. Refugees admitted to Germany have no right to live in the UK. The UK is not in the Schengen passport-free travel agreement so there are border checks on all migrants

cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit05.pdf

From: ec.europa.eu/education/policy/strategic-framework_en

Each EU country is responsible for its own education and training systems. EU policy is designed to support national action and help address common challenges, such as ageing societies, skills deficits in the workforce, technological developments and global competition. Education and training 2020 (ET 2020) is the framework for cooperation in education and training.

ET 2020 is a forum for exchanges of best practices, mutual learning, gathering and dissemination of information and evidence of what works, as well as advice and support for policy reforms.

In order to ensure the successful implementation of ET 2020, Working Groups composed of experts nominated by member countries and other key stakeholders work on common EU-level tools and policy guidance.

Funding for policy support and innovative projects is available through Erasmus+ for activities that promote learning and education at all levels and for all age groups.

In 2009, ET 2020 set four common EU objectives to address challenges in education and training systems by 2020:

Making lifelong learning and mobility a reality
Improving the quality and efficiency of education and training
Promoting equity, social cohesion, and active citizenship
Enhancing creativity and innovation, including entrepreneurship, at all levels of education and training

From: ec.europa.eu/education/policy/school_en

The European Commission works with EU countries to develop their school education systems. While each country is responsible for the organisation and content of its education and training systems, there are advantages in working together on issues of shared concern. The European Commission supports national efforts ...

Key words: advice, support, co-operation, guidance, recommendations.

Carolines LSE link is to do with the funding of higher education institutions, so not particularly relevant to encouraging school systems to incorporate 4 year olds or ensuring school leavers are competent in maths and science.

Overly cautious assumptions in the Treasury's recent report on the long-run consequences for the UK economy of leaving the European Union (EU) mean that it has probably underestimated the economic costs.

cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit04.pdf

Leaving the European Union (EU) would reduce flows of foreign direct investment (FDI) into the UK by more than a fifth, damaging productivity and lowering people's incomes.

cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit03.pdf

There are loads more, but I'm hard pressed to find the LSE ( or any other academic body apart from the very poor economists for brexit) that says anything positive.

Scottish exam results came out last week so in the spirit of #nowrongpath a great success story from failing his A levels.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39235168

I want an Alice in Wonderland office space. He is a fan of the lower £ increasing exports and FDI to the UK.

"A firm advocate of Brexit, he believes the pain of leaving the European Union will prove to be "a storm in a teacup... the truth is, Britain is doing really well".
He adds that while the fall in the value of the pound has helped exporters, it has also made investing in the UK more attractive to foreign entities.
"There is a wall of money arriving in London at the moment," he says."

Cannot help commenting that perhaps the average academic just needs to get out their ivory tower a bit more.

Also contrary to what Nippy would have you believe Scottish PMI at highest level since 2014 and Scottish salmon exports booming.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-40901852

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-40917608

Oh and DD and Wee Eck are still the best of pals despite diametrically opposed views on Brexit and Independence.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-40918376

Yes Giles Fulchs, the A level failure whose parents were millionaires, I'm sure he did it all by himself.

Exporters may be benefitting, but exports are down in the latest round but the balance of paymets is worse

"The UK’s deficit on trade in goods and services widened by £2.0 billion to £4.56 billion in June 2017 from a revised £2.52 billion in May. It was the biggest trade gap since September last year, as imports rose in the month by 3.3 percent to an all-time high of £53.95 billion, due to an increase in purchases of both goods and services. Exports dropped 0.7 percent to £49.39 billion. "

tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/balance-of-trade

In the same period of June 2017 German exports fell by 2.8%. Their trade surplus did however widen further as imports fell even further by 4.5%. Will be interesting going forward to see if this is just month by month blip or whether it follows through to GDP.

I think the German one was in response to falling global demand, the UK issue is that we are net importers.

We could discuss the posibility of a J curve effect but that would just be too geeky.

Don't think so since UK imports from Germany increased. Also doesn't explain falling German domestic demand. Re your link UK goods exports to the EU rose while to non-EU fell which may support a theory of softening global demand re UK position but not the far worse German performance.

Re prospering from fortuitous parentage there are far more fools easily parted from their wealth than there are success stories ime.

There are fools parted from their wealth stories, but there are far many more cases of people who have lots of opportunities and doors opened for them by coming from positions of privilege.

The German fall was mainly down to global demand outside of the EU falling, the poor domestic demand is thought to be down to more holidays falling in July.

Worth looking at the April 2017 BBC report on salmon exports though:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-business-39699830

However, the industry warned of the impact of losing migrant workers who do much of the processing of salmon and other food.

If Scotland has to trade with the rest of the European Union on the same basis as Norway, that would mean a 2% tariff on exports of fresh fish and 13% on processed fish, including smoked salmon.

The industry chief said there would be even more of a concern about future delays due to paperwork at European borders, following Britain's exit from the EU.

Good job all the growth is exports to US and China then. Also contrary to popular myth the proportion of EU migrants in Scotland is significantly below rUK and most of them are in cities but a good lobbyist never misses an opportunity to make their case.

Just defined the J curve off the top of my head to the DC. Had a quick google to see how close I was to the textbook. Practically word for word. Not bad 25 years out from exiting academia - you've made my day bath even if DH did sniff something about so called science and U-bends.

I've always contended that it isn't a science because there are no absolutes. Most econometrics is worked out after the fact.

Bathilda, tis indeed a day for irony, but thank you for the LSEs position. Sadly it falls into your 'long, dull and boring' category, and Im no nearer understanding the actual point youre trying to make.

Random, Id love your position to be true. Id love that the EU didnt spend billions on allegedly pointless directives such as these. Id love it that Italy didnt have to spend hundreds of thousands, going to the EU to challenge their right to have a crucifix up on a school wall. Id love it that the Laval, Viking and Rufert cases, didnt force teachers to a salary starting point of minimum wage only. Id especially love it, if government funding wasnt reliant on meeting said directives. But sadly its not.