Westminsterenders: The Ersatz ImitationThread

[OlennasWimple]

I am no RedToothBrush, so I'm not going to try to emulate her exception OP style.

Here, though, in the interests of carrying on our conversations about WTF is going on with Brexit and the weird political world we find ourselves in right now, is a sort of continuation thread

(Hurry back Red, we need you!)

myth of 'taking back control'

It's long been obvious that this was just a slogan. From the beginning, all the eager graspers of Control were positively indignant when asked to provide a Plan. And right now, on another thread, are some posters who are advocating a level of trusting passivity lower than that of stranded jellyfish at low tide, awaiting an agonising slow death by desiccation.

Control, my hairy arse.

red I have a friend who is vehemently against stop and search in this instance and thinks regulation is the way to go. Why would they listen to him? Well he's asian and 'looks the type' according to random people on the street. Oh and he's also been a victim of an acid attack, though thankfully not a massively bad one. But yeah, fuck sensible

Have you guys see this? Some folks looking for people interested in started a pro-EU Labour party. Unless they have awesome PR I doubt it will go anywhere, but interesting non the less.

labourforeurope.org.uk/

Amber Rudd urges police to use 'tactical' stop and search to combat acid attacks

Personally, I'm much more worried about knife attacks - with almost a fatal stabbing a week.

However I don't trust the police not to abuse S&S powers - resulting in them wondering in 202x why people don't trust them (again). If they are going to use S&S for acid or knives, it should be only those that are picked up, not some poor kids with 1/8th weed (thinks of DS ....)

Having said that Corbyn himself was always a Lexiter or at the best a lukewarm remainer.

I think thats the narrative that was getting pushed but I agreed with his stance that we needed to remain and influence change from the inside and Im desperately hoping Labour is just playing the long game before coming out in support of revoking Art 50

UK needs new party to stop 'catastrophic' Brexit, says ex-David Davis aide

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/09/brexit-political-party-james-chapman-david-davis

Anyone watching all the James Chapman stuff explode over Twitter? It's fascinating but... what's his motive? A new centrist party is a great idea but would create further splits in anti-Tory vote. Although he has declared he is no longer Tory.

Maybe that FB Canary Islands post tipped him over the edge.

Swedish - it's hugely enjoyable, isn't it. Twenty-plus years of his silent screaming finally given a voice, it seems. I love everything about it from his biog:

Recovering @dailymailUK pol ed. Osborne's right hand man. FoG chair. Ex-DEXEU chief of staff (let's gloss over that). Trainee Guardianista. Citizen of the world

And this:

Nigel Farage‏Verified account
@Nigel_Farage
Which side was Mr Chapman really working for in the Brexit department?

James Chapman‏ @jameschappers 5h5 hours ago
Not yours. We are going to grind you and your appalling party into the dust. How's the German citizenship application going?

Finally we have our poster boy 💗

I hope to God he doesn't tweet tomorrow that his account was hacked

It is lala. I'll watch and see though. It does remind you that lots of the key Brexiters hate each other so imagine what their civil servants think of them. .

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-david-davis-new-brexit-10960242
Tory David Davis' new Brexit statement has bad news for 1.2million Brits who live abroad
The EU does not want to give Brit expats 'onward movement', the top Tory confirmed - meaning they can't decant from Spain to France or Germany

Mr Davis wants the 1.2million Brits who live in 27 other EU countries to keep the right to 'onward movement' after Brexit in March 2019.

That would mean a British worker already living in Spain could then move to Germany or France with no restrictions.

Mr Davis claims this would match the offer he is making to EU citizens who already live in Britain - because they can choose to stay in Britain or travel to any other EU state.

But EU officials did not offer this during talks in July, Mr Davis confirmed.That means Brits would be given a simple choice after Brexit - stay in your adopted country, or return to the UK.^

Mr Davis wrote: "We have questioned whether this is consistent with the principle of reciprocity, and also with the Commission’s desire to protect rights currently enjoyed under EU law."

Mr Davis added the EU's offer would also scrap the rights of British citizens who live abroad to vote in certain elections.

Nasty EU saying freedom of movement, means well freedom of movement and if you don't want freedom of movement then than means you don't want freedom of movement.

Is everyone at the telegraph alright? Do they need some help finding their grip? This is one of the maddest stories I have read for a while I think

Britain's Brexit negotiators denied water by Brussels during divorce talks, civil servant claims
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/09/britains-brexit-negotiators-denied-water-brussels-divorce-talks/amp/

Perhaps the clock at The Torygraph is running slow - it's just crept forward to 1st April 1938.

bigly
I have a bad feeling about this new party idea.

I don't think we need a new party - we just need the others to work together more, to block the stupid idea of a Hard Brexit. Preferably block it altogether.

I started to warm towards Chuka Umunna but now I think he is more of an arrogant git than a proper statesman.

The EU original proposal was that all expats keep existing rights - so it would have allowed UK expats to move anywhere.

However, DD is insisting on removing important rights from E27 expats, such as the right to appeal to ECJ, the right to bring in a non-EU spouse who doesn't have a certain income, the right to leave the UK for some years and then return.

So, obviously the EU won't accept that their citizens lose important rights, while the UK expats keep all theirs.

If I lose rights as a result of Brexit, I will blame the Uk govt entirely, not the EU or the German govt

Threats are grim normality for women in the public eye

Gina Miller has been receiving threats of acid attacks and other violence for months now.

Some even put their names and addresses on - and are apparently very surprised when the police issue them with "Cease and Desist" notices.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/09/gina-miller-afraid-to-leave-her-home-after-threats-of-acid-attacks

I started to warm towards Chuka Umunna but now I think he is more of an arrogant git than a proper statesman

I have a bit of a naughty habit of looking favourably on any politician who is openly anti Brexit. I'm on holidays at the moment so have been on a bit of a media blackout.

I can see why so many people in the U.K. know very little about politics. It's much more relaxing when you keep yourself in the dark.

Howard Fineman
Howard Fineman @howardfineman
#Trump just threatened #NorthKorea with "fire and fury." Can a #Twitter war with a juvenile dictator-madman lead to a nuclear holocaust?

During the US presidential elections, it was fashionable in conservative circles there - and on MN - to claim that Trump would be safer for the world than Clinton, because she was a liberal "warmonger"

Clinton has many faults, but at least seemed sane
My view was that the world would be a more dangerous place if a tantrumming psychopath controlled the world's most powerful nuclear arsenal & armed forces.

I would much rather have been wrong, as I hope my fears about Brexit turn out to be overly pessimistic.
I wish politicians in the UK & US didn't keep acting down to my expectations

Claims are made, particularly in the US, that inadequate politicians somehow "grow" in office, abandon crazy campaign rhetoric and somehow became competent leaders.
Do they still put out a stocking for Santa ?

On both sides of the pond, this has proved to be whistling in the dark:
a characteristic of both Trumpers and Brexiters

Listening to this called to mind NI, Ireland and the whole mess. There will never be truth about collusion (otherwise state sponsored terrorism). I read somewhere that there was fear that more collusion with loyalism to destabilise future of NI in event of majority not being in favour of current state. Creating new mess in case of (or event of ) vote for a United Ireland.

Read bonfires being used now by Nationalists for anniversary of the introduction of internment. Furore at attempts to dismantle them by contractors hired by Belfast Council. Resulting in stones fired and an arson attack. Said they didn't try to dismantle loyalist bonfires. Contractor now resigned. Could you imagine having to breathe that air?

Gullibility:
Those who are more willing to believe in conspiracies by the "elite" also seem the ones most likely to be taken in by them

I notice that our old chum from the Brexit Arms is on the thread about pharma companies "hiding a cure for cancer" - and is one of the few posters who seems to think this plausible.

Those who are unable / unwilling to examine & evaluate facts are very vulnerable to those who appeal to emotions & prejudice.

My dad (retired paediatric radiologist) gets really annoyed about the media talking about a "cure for cancer" as if it were one amorphous entity. There are all sorts of different cancers with all sorts of different causes, some of which can already either be cured or managed.

But there's no magic bullet.