Westminsterenders: The Ersatz ImitationThread

[OlennasWimple]

I am no RedToothBrush, so I'm not going to try to emulate her exception OP style.

Here, though, in the interests of carrying on our conversations about WTF is going on with Brexit and the weird political world we find ourselves in right now, is a sort of continuation thread

(Hurry back Red, we need you!)

Absolutely math. Here and in the US. Persisting though. And kudos to the protestors and Charlottesville mayor.

Bannon and the alt right cabal in the White House won't let their puppet criticise their chums

(paywall) Liam Fox’s trade department derided as aimless and incompetent

< surely not they are bringing us trade deals with all those countries prevented from trading with us properly before - um, N Korea, Syria ... ? >

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/trade-department-derided-as-aimless-and-incompetent-kc0wnkgdz

Trade experts warn that attempting to conclude comprehensive trade deals with more than a couple of partners at a time may be counterproductive.

As the Institute for Government put it:
“There is a real danger that the UK wastes its limited capacity launching trade negotiations with large numbers of countries,

and either doing bad deals quickly
or getting bogged down in protracted talks going nowhere.”
....
Andrew Adonis, the former Labour minister who has been trying to establish through parliamentary questions the strength of the negotiating team,
claimed it was becoming apparent that
the department was unfit for purpose.

“The Department for International Trade is in crisis and clearly incapable of leading serious international trade negotiations,”

“Theresa May should merge it with the Treasury so that trade policy and negotiations are conducted with basic competence” < ouch >

Insiders say that the department has a difficult relationship with the Treasury
and the Department for Exiting the European Union.

Both are said to be sceptical about its central task:
negotiating enough free-trade deals quickly enough to offset any damage to the economy from Brexit.

< anyone with a working brain cell would be sceptical -
ok that's less than half the cabinet >

The Treasury has asked Dr Fox’s department for a policy paper explaining and quantifying how it intends to achieve its goals.

< good luck with that >

Steve Baker, minister in the department leading the negotiations, has been refreshingly honest in saying the transition period is a “soft landing for a hard Brexit”. We have been warned.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/12/david-miliband-tory-brexit-policy-chaotic-fightback-must-begin-at-once

So many words to describe Steve Baker, and those aren't two which spring to mind.

I would describe Steve Baker - and his WhatsApp chums Raab and Villiers in the European Research Group -
as skidmarks on the underpants of the British body politic

BigChoc He's High Wycombe MP used to be Barbara Castle's manor when she was an MEP, and now they have a skidmark cracker.

DT has 'at least one killed and 34 injured in Virginia'
Looks like it's started.

There will be more of the sort of violence that occurred in Charlottesville (and Anaheim, CA) as the US is forced to look at the (many) remnants of slavery that still exist and to decide what place they should have, if any, from now on. I suspect universities are going to be targeted because they tend to be bastions of more liberal thought, and some because they will be facing issues surrounding removal of statues, changing names of buildings or scholarships, etc., endowed by slave owners. The Klan and white supremacists in general are not going to watch quietly while civic and university leaders go about removing symbols they hold dear. It will be interesting to see if there are further white supremacist terrorist attacks (such as church burnings and attacks on black congregations, and possibly attacks on college campuses.)

I think what all of this fury on the part of the neo Nazis (incl the Klan) illustrates is the impact of a black president and first lady. I think the election of Barack Obama (twice) incensed redneck America, and the fight to put blacks and the left in their place has commenced.

math yes. No one can say we didn't know this was to happen. And the same is on its way in britain, that is for sure.

You know this thread right?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2999592-Were-not-on-a-17-day-vacation-not-us-We-have-meetings-and-calls-Now-where-did-that-golf-ball-go-Trump-cont?pg=27
Hope your family is ok.

Looks like we'll be needing that German citizenship sooner rather than later:

One of the speakers, the far-right figurehead Richard Spencer, said he had been maced on the way into the park and lashed out at police and city authorities.

Never in my life have I felt like the government was cracking down on me until today,” said Spencer, who was flush-faced. “We came in peace and we were effectively thrown to the wolves

He said that “militarized police”, whom he compared to “stormtroopers”, “did not protect us, they funneled us towards the antifa ... I am a citizen of the USA”.

^He said that they would not back down from protesting against the statue. When he mentioned Mayor Signer by name, the crowd chanted “Jew! Jew! Jew!

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/12/virginia-unite-the-right-rally-protest-violence

They began assembling shortly after midday, union jacks fluttering above their heads. By 2pm on 13 August 1977, 40 years ago, hundreds of rightwing extremists were ready to march through Lewisham in south-east London.

Above them, on New Cross Road, vast crowds of counter-protesters had massed to prevent the 500 supporters of the National Front from marching.

Less than a year before the so-called battle of Lewisham, a local council byelection in Deptford saw the far right secure almost half the vote. Together the National Front and its breakaway faction, the National party, secured 44.5%, a total not quite enough to beat Labour but sufficient to relegate the Conservatives into fourth place.

Among other things, the vote was electoral affirmation that the Tories were being punished for their “moderate” stance on immigration. According to Paul Jackson, an expert on far-right extremism and a historian from the University of Northampton, a hotchpotch of white supremacists, neo-Nazis and classical fascists were winning the populist debate on immigration. Before the New Cross march, the NF had as many as 14,000 paid members. Jackson said: “People who would ordinarily be drawn to the Conservative party were seeing the National Front as radical, a movement that might answer their fears about immigration.”

Jackson said: “Before the 1979 general election the National Front still hoped to break through but Thatcher was more sympathetic to people’s concerns over immigration and that took away a lot of their momentum. The political space around the NF changed and led to its collapse.”

But the battle of Lewisham would turn into a disaster for the far right. Although its boot boy element would glorify the violence as a great day out, the NF’s ambition to become a political force began to ebb away even as the broken bottles were being swept from Lewisham’s streets.

Today that community will come together once again when a maroon plaque is unveiled at 323 New Cross Road, where the demonstrations began, and where Lewisham fought back against the fascists

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/13/battle-of-lewisham-national-front-1977-far-right-london-police

My Twitter timeline is a mix of Charlotteville and hard-Left memes slagging off David Miliband.

Has anyone else seen these?

It strikes me that there is a definite 'feel' to them. They are short, very, very simple, the absolute opposite of deep (just one-line insults, really), and there are many, many of them.

The purpose, I think, is not to persuade, as such. Or to disseminate new information. I think the purpose, actually, to keep the 'faithful' from thinking/wavering. The message seems to be the opposite of information, rather to dissuade from moving from an existing position and to reassure - by giving an excuse to maintain a pre-existing position and the reassuring impression of a crowd with similar views.

It's quite strange. I don't think I'm getting the point across, really. It seems a very 'social media' thing. A strategy that is both very effective within the form of social media and a very effective use of social media.

The sheer volume - and bile - suggests how very much the hard-left really don't want people to be swayed towards an anti-Brexit/Miliband position.

It's hard to know which they fear most: an undermining of support for the Labour line of 'Brexit for
Jobs' (what does that mean?) or fear that anti-Brexit feeling is strong enough to undermine support for Corbyn.

It's depressing though. All these memes rubbishing the Miliband article. But, personally, I see Trump, Brexit, and an attempt to move the body politic rightwards as connected - and the biggest threat facing us.

(That's very poorly expressed. I just feel really despairing today - and really enraged by the lack of political options to express my despair and outrage.)

It is August. The Guardian always starts floating the idea of David Miliband challenging the Labour leader in August. Sadly he always bottled it and now is not the time.

I have no words for Charlottesville. Reading The Power by Naomi Alderman makes me feel very angry anyway.

thecat can you give us some links to the David milliband posts? I am on Twitter and can't see any of these at all. I am curious to see them and where they are coming from as I would have expected to see them if they are coming from the left. Maybe it is further left then I follow or lost in the stream.

In fact I just searched and all that really nasty stuff against him is coming from the brexiteers that I can see.

It's depressing though. All these memes rubbishing the Miliband article. But, personally, I see Trump, Brexit, and an attempt to move the body politic rightwards as connected - and the biggest threat facing us.*
Exactly how I also feel

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3004863-Westministenders-I-cant-believe-its-not-butter?watched=1

New thread

I'm not on Twitter but I've just been reading the Guardian's coverage of Miliband's speech and the negative BTL comments (of which there are many) appear to come more from the left wing rather than traditional Brexiteers although I suppose the Guardian is a more self-selecting forum than Twitter. The bile is astonishing though (as is the use of scare quotes).

all that really nasty stuff against him is coming from the brexiteers
My FB feed includes labour stuff and I've seen nothing either.

to come more from the left wing
Could it be that the brexiteers are pretending to be lexiteers? The SWP are so Alf Garnetty it's pretty easy to.