Westminsterenders: The Ersatz ImitationThread

[OlennasWimple]

I am no RedToothBrush, so I'm not going to try to emulate her exception OP style.

Here, though, in the interests of carrying on our conversations about WTF is going on with Brexit and the weird political world we find ourselves in right now, is a sort of continuation thread

(Hurry back Red, we need you!)

OMG! I had no idea what I was missing! they managed to put in doors there afterall!
Oooooohhhh

Valentine - the "new" wooden doors aren't in yet, they're just leaning against the work surfaces in the kitchen, having appeared there on Saturday while Wattyyy was out, together with 5 cigarette butts in her garden, outside the white PVC patio doors, sneaked in while Ken, the Nice Shopkeeper was serving a customer. The concern is that the CFBs (who may actually be the owners as she has never seen the CFNs) may deludedly think that replacing the white doors with wooden ones might make it ok for Planning.

Anyway, I digress . But it's nice to have a bit of amusement while faced with the clusterfuck consequences of Brexit.

Last night I found Motheroffour's pig boards really funny.

It was the image of MP's being "made to walk backwards to get away, which can be used for desperate manoeuvres."

Today my sense of humour has gone, and am finding it chronically depressing again.

I know the thread discussed Cornish funding previously, but I take it everyone has seen this confirmation of the position.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cornwall-lose-eu-funding-uk-government-replace-brexit-latest-dclg-request-down-julian-german-a7603921.html

At least some places are commissioning detailed studies on the impact of Brexit on British citizens and what to advise them.

http://www.uva.nl/en/disciplines/shared/subsites/amsterdam-centre-for-european-law-and-governance/en/news/2017/07/brexit-report-amsterdam.html

Can't actually get into the pdf which includes the recommendations from my phone (which is playing silly buggers) - but I am sure that Amsterdam, a city, is showing more thought and consideration than Westminster

A quick scan of the Amsterdam research document shows that the Dutch government is (touchingly) keen to preserve the rights of UK citizens in Amsterdam and has worked out a series of scenarios:

Advocate an amendment to article 20, first clause of the Aliens Act 2000 by adding that the State Secretary of Security and Justice is authorised:
(d) to formally grant a permanent residence permit to an alien whose EU permanent residence permit has been nullified as a result of the Brexit.

Worryingly, there are sort of emergency measures at the end:

If it appears that not a single transition regulation will be agreed upon, inform Britons in time – so, before the Brexit - about the obligation to request a change to their residency rights in time.

If it appears that no transition regulations will apply, offer entrepreneurial Britons assistance in preparing an application as a self-employed entrepreneur and – if the municipality’s assessment is part of the decision-making procedure –advocate that British entrepreneurs are granted a residence permit if that seems reasonable to the City of Amsterdam.

Better start thinking of jam-importing businesses we can set up in the Netherlands...

As an expat in Germany, I am not expecting anything helpful or even sensible from the Uk govt
I will have to rely on German authorities being fair.
Colleagues from India and S Korea told me their own govts provide them with quite useful info & support

I'm not sure if self-employed is so useful - you need to show you can support yourself and any family.
Less easy to prove reliability of income.

If you have an employer of any size, they can help obtain permission for you to stay, as long as you are working for them - our HR said it would be a simple formality in my case until retirement (unless DD starts a war)

After 5 years residence, you can apply for permanent residence - iirc that's EU law based on UN.

My Indian colleague married someone from India and was able to obtain a visa for her reasonably easily
Visas for spouse and DC still in education don't seem a problem.

Those who will have a problem: pensioners, unless the UK guarantees UK pension and refund of healthcare

Not sure pension increases are the major problem, it is the exchange rate that makes the big difference; we have lost 16% of our pension income since Brexit. Clearly when you retire abroad you expect to deal with exchange rate fluctuations, but sustained decline of the £ is different. We are OK, lots aren't.

pretty thanks for the update on the patio doors thread. I've been busy and totally lost track of that fascinating thread.

Clearly when you retire abroad you expect to deal with exchange rate fluctuations, but sustained decline of the £ is different

A friend of mine is planning to retire soon in Spain. She voted leave, I always thought she made an odd descision.

I don't know many Leave voters, Horrid, but those that I do know sincerely believed that our borders and residency rights would continue as they had done because (a) that's what Nige promised beforehand (b) the Germans want to sell us cars etc. Voting leave only meant getting rid of the bits that they didn't like - immigration, loss of sovereignty, one told me that political correctness would be rolled back .

My Twitter feed tells me that Leave are officially mounting a campaign to get Philip Hammond sacked. I imagine bitter, older, white men gleefully turning to their laptops in a frenzy of angry email writing to MPs, press, etc.

I wonder what will happen. Hammond seems to be the only grown-up in the team responsible for Brexit - and as such, I guess his position is, indeed, quite vulnerable.

Honestly. how did we get to this position - where a small section of very angry, pretty illogical people and out and out right-wing libertarians get to determine policy for the nation?

Since unimaginable amounts of money started flowing into think tanks/pressure groups from the pockets of people who are not accountable to anyone.

I think some of the Leave Cabinet members are schizophrenic (apologies to real sufferers of the condition): simultaneously deludedly holding the contradictory belief that we can have a transition deal for up to 3 years post A50 and that we can restrict immigration immediately post A50.

Honestly. how did we get to this position - where a small section of very angry, pretty illogical people and out and out right-wing libertarians get to determine policy for the nation?

Well either a very angry, pretty illogical, out and out right wing libertarian electorate voted them in, or the electorate was misled?

I read that ironically, "while libertarians advocate "small" government, (i.e. reduction of government in all areas except those which protect the domination of the capitalist class) when libertarian ideology is put into effect, it leads to an extremely oppressive society, dominated by a wealthy few. Libertarianism is popular among those who in actuality know little of politics or the real world. "

But what I don't get is libertarianism is meant to support big business, but in this whole mess the govt doesn't seem to listen to big businesses who don't want it either...

I've been discussing with dh that in fact right-wing Libertarians (the Koch brothers and their billionaire ilk) are in fact anarchists by another name.

They want to undermine governments and leave it up to survival of the richest fittest.

prettybird I don't think they are Anarchists per se, i.e. people who wish to see anarchy as a sustainable societal system for the entire future.

They merely wish for temporary chaos which can then be resolved by the imposition of a societal system which suits them (in the process, of course, earning the undying gratitude of the populace for saving them from the horrors of said chaos).

Creative destruction, innit?

Honestly. how did we get to this position - where a small section of very angry, pretty illogical people and out and out right-wing libertarians get to determine policy for the nation?

That's been the position since the year dot. It's just we can now see behind the curtain.

Mother from reading expat sites, there is a difference between permanent residence and citizenship in Belgium.

With PR (apparently card types B, C, D E+ and F+) you can stay in Belgium indefinitely, working or otherwise, under similar conditions as Belgian nationals and with similar rights and benefits.

But if you leave for longer than one/two years, you lose your status.

That last condition is like permanent residence in the UK, of course.

Permanent residence is a guarantee that if you leave the country, you will be allowed back in. (My DB had to wait ages to get that before he left the US ...). However, it doesn't allow you to vote, or afford any protections that citizens can enjoy. Moreover it can be revoked (ideally via a court process) and you can be deported "back to whence you came".

Obviously a citizen can't be kicked out of their own country. (Although astute May-watchers will know this is exactly what she has been trying to engineer for years. Unfortunately for her the UN refuses to recognise it).

There is a risk to the host country of offering PR over citizenship - being a citizen also places certain obligations on an individual. The notion of "treason" may be arcane in the 21st century, but even within living memory has been a key factor in some trials.

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*

Yougov found 800 leavers (39% of 2k) who say losing their or family member's job worth it for Brexit: bulk over 65s

People who no longer work (and are dependent on other workers but have their income protected) and who have largely paid off their mortgage say that other people loosing their job is worth it for Brexit.

This is the bottomline for Brexit.

Brexit is happening to other people not the people who want it most.

Mainly because they don't pay the price or carry the risk. In other words, the rich or the protected.

Katie Martin‏*@katie*martinfx
fixed that for you.