Westminsterenders: The Ersatz ImitationThread

[OlennasWimple]

I am no RedToothBrush, so I'm not going to try to emulate her exception OP style.

Here, though, in the interests of carrying on our conversations about WTF is going on with Brexit and the weird political world we find ourselves in right now, is a sort of continuation thread

(Hurry back Red, we need you!)

Theresa May may not be up to the job but it’s a job into which she has been forced.

Who exactly 'forced' Theresa May to put her name forward for PM? As I recall, it had been a long standing ambition and she couldn't wait to stand. Others, like BoJo, equally desperate to be PM, realised that it was a poisoned chalice and made sure he didn't stand.

Garden fruit trees can be a bit unreliable when it comes to cropping - a glut one year, and nothing much for the next one.

I agree, peregrina
May grabbed her only chance to become PM - because the main candidates, like Cameron, "didn't want to be responsible for that shit"

Parris still can't quite bring himself to blame a Tory PM for accepting a job far above her level of competence.

My Victoria Plum tree unusually crops really well every year

But I came on here to go aaaaargh

Trying to rant describe to dh why I think it'll be important to be growing plenty of veg over the winter of 18/19 and spring of 19 if there is no transition deal and the consequent gridlock at the Channel and he says to me, "Oh good, that means that Scottish ports will have a resurgence". I try to explain to him that it's not that simple and he says irritably, I'm just not interested".

He. Just. Doesn't. Get. It.

I see there is a News thread about the Parris article:

Several know he is a Remainer, so dismiss, sight unseen, as Remoaning
Unless you keep (blind) faith that the govt is carrying out Brexit competently, then you are a Remoaner
So, with us or against us; No further thought is necessary

Some have touching faith in govt:

"I find it hard to believe no one is doing anything regarding Brexit - presumably there is lots going on behind closed doors - civil service, banks, farming lobbies etc........ we will see in time."

I always think that must be the Brexiteer anthem...

rosietosey

I've just posted about the Ireland situation in a thread on the politics section. I agree completely with your summary. It's getting extremely worrying with the DUP (and their new found arrogance, thanks Theresa May) on a collision course with the Irish Government.

I was very pleased with Varadkar's comments on Friday, why should the Irish government try and sort out a border they don't want? DUP seem to think it's up to him though. Nothing from the British Government which makes me furious.

Varadkar going North this week to speak to the parties to try and help with the talks but that's a waste of time now with the DUP at his throat.

Philip Hammond allies accuse Liam Fox of 'living in fantasy-land' amid mounting Brexit tensions

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/30/exclusive-philip-hammond-allies-accuse-liam-fox-living-fantasy/

The International Trade Secretary this weekend denied that the Cabinet has reached a consensus that free movement of people will continue for up to three years after Brexit

His comments opened a Cabinet rift with the Chancellor, who said on Friday that after Britain leaves the the EU in March 2019 there will be a "business as usual" period before new rules on migration and trade are gradually introduced.

Allies of Mr Hammond were furious with the intervention amid mounting Cabinet tensions.
One minister told The Telegraph:

"Hammond is on top of his argument.
Fox, Gove and Johnson are in fantasy land, they don't have a clue.
They are taking ideological positions."

Posting a screenshot because I don't want to post Scum/Fail/Gorygraph links here.
I can imagine why it is so disconcerting for the extreme right wingers to see our universities voting left-wing. It is also heartening to feel that university education (asking questions, demanding periods, verifying resources of information, challenging boundaries) is what they are so afraid of.

Wrt NI - that rape clause is going to anger a lot of people, and it's possible the next GE result will reflect that anger.

Constituency boundaries are set to shift too, iirc.

I wonder if it's too much to hope that the DUP may be on the ropes...

However, it is speculated here that the ultimate price of the deal with the Tories may have been an alteration of the proposed boundary changes.
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/boundary-changes-could-make-sinn-fein-biggest-party-in-northern-ireland-35831665.html

Sam coates times@ Samcoatestimes
Last night Team Boris Johnson briefed the Press Association that he wouldn't be resigning. Quite something.
Off the back of a Lib Dem press release that reported it as an unsourced rumour
That few had noticed
But it struck such a nerve that a formal denial was given
It was striking because Team Boris were pointedly refusing to back the Rudd / Hammond line on continuity on migration plans post Brexit
And clearly there was a lot of unhappiness amongst Brexiteers out of the country last week. They saw a plot (fwiw more accident than design)
Not sure what most relevant lesson is. Brexiteers are feeling unloved? Things get done only when Theresa away? Leaving country dangerous?

Anna Soubry @ anna_soubry
Brexiteers promised a land of milk and honey – the reality is gruel and chlorinated chicken Politics | The Guardian

And she links to yesterday's guardian article:

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/30/tensions-flare-in-cabinet-over-post-brexit-free-movement
Tensions flare in cabinet over post-Brexit free movement

Boris aligning himself on the same side of the fence as Liam. They were both out the country last week as is Big T so looks a bit like when the cat's away etc from the ones left simmering at home.

I don't believe the Cabinet are split. The public spats are more for EU consumption so they understand the need for compromise. The EU wanted a huge Tory majority so the Government could back off from its red lines - that's not what happened.

Just posting an interesting/depressing report commissioned by the ucu on the lifetime impact on earnings of tuition fees. I do think that this, combined with brexit, will bring a labour government next time around. This issue - morally even if not legally - will be the next misselling scandal, with all its emphasis on the 'positives' no repayment on the first £21k and no repayment after 30 years, and on none of the negatives eg you will face a marginal tax rate of over 50%, you will be repaying £10s of £1,000s more than you borrowed, over your entire working life etc. Every time a middle income person of the future looks at their pay slip they will be reminded never to vote conservative. These figures are shocking:
www.ucu.org.uk/article/8882/Graduates-face-mid-life-tax-crisis-because-of-student-debt

This issue will be toxic for the Tories for decades to come.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6cf4acec-7565-11e7-b3b6-190372d1e991
Singapore model is now impossible

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5e0fb8a8-756e-11e7-b3b6-190372d1e991
We won’t be a tax haven after Brexit, says Hammond
Britain ‘will not undercut EU rivals’

This was the favoured model by many Tories. It's dead.

Also, has Hammond managed to stage a leadership coup by default even though May is still PM over the weekend?

It certainly looks like he's tried. Note Boris's denial of resignation though.

Also this from the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/48baa8cc-7565-11e7-b3b6-190372d1e991
Labour calls grow for single market

www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/the-hidden-prison-crisis-how-homelessness-causes-a-cycle-of?utm_term=.otdvYkvK9#.imzZ8EZ1L
The Hidden Prison Crisis: How Homelessness Causes A Cycle Of Reoffending
With prisons in crisis and probation services unable to cope with demand, prisoners are routinely leaving jail with nowhere to live and no prospect of employment. BuzzFeed News hears their stories and asks how this can happen in the 21st century.

But y'know. Cuts.

This is a complete farsical mess
and I just don't get how anyone think this is still a good idea.

Is this Brexit arms still active on MN? I don't think I have seen anything from them recently?

Posted this before. I love it

uk.reuters.com/article/us-music-mickjagger-idUKKBN1AD1PT

I think the brexit arms is an ex pub
No longer functioning
Much like any brexiter argument....

www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/saraspary/people-in-the-uk-are-twice-as-likely-to-face-disability
People In The UK Are Twice As Likely To Face Disability Discrimination Than People In Other European Countries
Analysis given exclusively to BuzzFeed News shows people in the UK were more likely to say they faced disability discrimination than people from other major European countries.

This one anything to do with our shit about benefit scroungers too? Or just because we are lead by a bunch of people who flirt with facists?

m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_597ec9ade4b0da64e87a2145/amp?ncid=tweetlnkukhpmg00000001
Anger Over North-South Transport Spending Divide 'Worth £59 Billion A Decade'
Almost 35,000 people have signed a petition demanding a U-turn.

“We are currently investing over £1 billion to improve rail infrastructure across the North of England, and major upgrades to the Manchester – Leeds – York route are being designed and developed.

“We are also investing £800 million on new road schemes in the North West, creating around 600 jobs – including upgrading the M62 to a four-lane smart motorway.”

Quotes like this make me realise just how out of touch the government are with the north. A whole 600 jobs woo. M60 upgrading will last about 5 years in effectiveness with how busy the road is in rush hour. This doesn't explain how all those people in those cars will manage to get into Manchester. The metro link is great but rammed. I know people who cycle in 16miles each day (and back) because for them it's quicker than driving. Great if you are fast enough and fit enough, but I couldn't manage that.

Banning cars from the city which has been proposed in the past won't work either. Public transport isn't good enough to do that, especially in the surrounding commuter areas which are NOT Greater Manchester and covered by the new mayor. There is no cohesive strategy for linking up the surrounding authorities and transport planning which is part of the problem.

Honestly, and they wonder why people on the north of England tended to vote for Brexit. It's cos these fuckers haven't got a clue beyond the home counties and their rural country homes.

Sorry red...
I can t summon up an ounce of sympathy for anyone who voted for leave.
I know I have to....i know it's the only way forward...but right now I'm just too angry.

Same here. Had a conversation with a leave Saturday who changed his mind only weeks after his vote, but told me there just wasn't a lot of information to go on😖

Oh my. I love my music and those Jagger lyrics are too good not to just flat out quote.

I went to see England but it wasn't there/
I think I lost it down the back of my chair/
I think I'm losing my imagination/
I'm tired of talking about immigration

Had a girl in Lisbon, a girl in Rome/
Now I'll have to stay at home/
So lock the shutters, bolt the doors/
London's gonna be like Singapore

Genuis.

I spent last week wondering what Bowie would have made of Brexit (yeah this is why I needed a break!) One of his big inspirations was George Orwell and nineteeneightyfour.

The low tax haven idea is dead? Well we are truly fucked then, it was the only workable post brexit economic model where the UK as a nation could come out of it ok not the people though, they don't count obviously, screwed either way.

Sorry red...
I can t summon up an ounce of sympathy for anyone who voted for leave.
I know I have to....i know it's the only way forward...but right now I'm just too angry.

I wasn't up for sympathy for the north. Plenty of Remainers here too. My point is more that there is a huge disillusioned vote and this is in part down to neglect of the north.

The misinformation that has led many northerners to place blame in other quarters is something of another point. I personally don't blame a lot of people for voting leave, on the back of the idea that "we wouldn't be having a referendum if it was going to be so bad" mentality.

There is an awful lot of rather innocent and naive thinking in that, which is nice in a way, because it lacks the cynicism that despite everything the government couldn't possibly be that incompetent.

In someways it would be nice to be in that mentality and to lack the awareness of the reality precisely because you don't have the fear of what's to come and precisely because you don't feel the responsibility to go "fuck that shit, how the bloody he'll do we stop this crap" at this moment in time.

Sure I'd like last year's vote to have never happened, but I do feel sympathy for people who will suffer, regardless of how they voted, because very few knew the implications. The rights and wrongs of that are another matter that needs to be addressed separately to Brexit.