Westministenders: Transition

[RedToothBrush]

Last thread opener, it was all about the government buzz word being shown to listen at every opportunity.

Now transition is creeping in as people realise that no we can't just do a settlement, arrange a new trade deal with the EU and have a whole host of other deals in place in two years.

Who'd have thought.

We will be getting Brexit because we give in to threats of terrorism. Not quite getting how that takes back control.

But Brexit will be good. It will be glorious. And in the long term we will be better off for it.

Er ok.

Cummings:

"DD is manufactured exactly to specification as the perfect stooge for Heywood:
thick as mince, lazy as a toad, & vain as Narcissus"

< lots of mince today >

Lurking Love it

I do take some exception to the line that Scotland didn't vote for the current government. There are now 13 Tory MPs in Scotland, and without them, the Tory-DUP deal would have been untenable. I also recall sections of the SNP support taking delight in the discredited Scottish Labour Party falling behind the Tories in the polls. If there's having your cake and eating it, it would be exactly this.

I've heard quite a few people say that DD isn't stupid. What are they basing this on?

I come from a family and community where many identify as ethnically Irish to some degree. We had an Irish Club alongside the Polish, Lithuanian and other Eastern European Clubs, as well as Curry Houses. Ceilidhs as well as Vodka. They made for some great nights out

Is the issue not one of respect? Frankly everyone I knew knew exactly what their Irish heritage / identity was and were proud of it. As far as I am concerned it is OK for someone to take the piss out of their own identity in an ironic way and for others to do so if it is in a context of permissive mutual respect. I know my DDs and their friends who are from many different ethnicities and cultures played with this during their schooldays but knew the limits were in the playground amongst themselves. On a public forum without that context, and if you like permission, it feels, frankly, for me patronising and superior.

Everyone I know who has the necessary fully Irish grandparent has now applied for a passport. I miss it by one generation . Irish identity has never been more respected in my experience.....

No, I never said it was Scotland's fault.

It was a comment about the delight at Labour's downfall in Scotland.

John Crace on extra spending:

Being a minority government is proving to be a very expensive drug habit for the Tories.
www.theguardian.com/global/2017/jul/17/tory-magic-money-tree-allows-justine-greening-to-splash-cash-on-schools

Mother start with the bit about Mundell being the lone Scottish Tory in Westminster. Go all round the houses on how the Westminster Government is the Government of the whole of the UK. Debate the current status of the SNP and their Holyrood minority Government position. End with a tortuous legal maze through the Constitution in the guise of the Art 50 case which established that International Treaties, including the EC Treaties, are not devolved matters.

That is before even considering the general "us" and "them" tone.

Elena according to Labour there is in fact no new money for education but just a bit of fancy off balance sheet accounting robbing the future to pay for the present - a bit like the student loan book.

I was referring to your Irish and talking blarney comment, as you well know how.

The point is more simple than you imagine, probably because my comments are devoid of context.

1. Labour suffered a huge collapse in its support in Scotland at some point during the New Labour era for reasons that still aren't entirely clear to me (but I suspect was largely voters getting itchy feet after a long period of Labour government).

1. Much of that support went to the SNP.

1. SNP has many vocal supporters who have expressed, repeatedly, great pleasure in Labour's downfall. I saw for example many tweets on my timeline from people with Yes twibbons crowing with excitement that Labour should fall to third place behind the Tories.

1. A section of that vocal support edits and writes for The National. (Imagine if Momentum produced a newspaper - then substitute SNP/Sturgeon for Labour/Corbyn and you'd get The National)

1. Consequently having cake = delighting at Labour's decline; eating it = being pissed off that some of that has translated as an increase in Tory support in Scotland which is one of the factors that has got us where we are.

That's all.

More bad news ...

www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/18/uk_government_eu_data_flows_report/

The UK is risking a security and trade "cliff edge" if it doesn't secure an arrangement that allows data transfer with the European Union to continue after Brexit, a report has said.

(contd)

www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/aug/15/scotland-dna-study-project

I love this piece. Turns out David Lammy and I share Orcadian links. and the Scots have the Germans to thank for success built on porridge.

"Not every analysis of DNA has delivered welcome results. DNA analysis on Moffat himself – a proud Scottish Borders man – showed that his ancestry was English. "We don't offer counselling for that," he said."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish-Scots

"The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scots) were at this time inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland; while the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice versa. It is essential to keep these distinctions clearly in mind (and verce visa)."

Everyone I know who has the necessary fully Irish grandparent has now applied for a passport. I miss it by one generation   . Irish identity has never been more respected in my experience.....

Sadly ron the experience myself and some others of Irish origin is that were returning back to the 80s wrt anti Irish sentiment being masked as 'bants init'. It isn't bants at all.

The Blarney stone and its power to bestow the gift of eloquence. Turns out it is also the Scottish stone of Destiny.

www.blarneycastle.ie/pages/kiss-the-blarney-stone

Hashi That is exactly my point. "Bants" covers up lack of respect for many minorities, especially women. Some of the now acceptable "banter" amongst lad culture is truly horrific. Sorry to be explicit but how is "Doing a spit roast" [anger] [anger] [anger] acceptable on any level.

If you grow up in a community where different identities / minorities are respected, then ironic humour does not stray into the offensive. I have Irish friends /relations who can be very funny about the experience of being Irish without in any way straying into offensive derogatory rhetoric. As indeed can friends from other ethnicities /cultures.

That is entirely different to the current right wing sponsored unmasking of prejudice and discrimination.

I didn't see the whole of this interview with Heseltine, but this bit quoted on the guardian live feed is interesting.

He said he thought there was a “remote” chance of Brexit being reversed. He suggested this could happen if Labour changed its stance. Asked if Brexit could be reversed, he said: “There is a chance, but a remote one.” He went on:
What I see happening now is a general election in 18 months, two years’ time. The Labour party, at the moment, appear to be supporting Brexit. But if as I think events over the next 18 month erode the Brexit support, because they will just one after the other reveal how bad Brexit is, and how undermining of British self interest it is, if that changes public opinion, then my guess is, surprise, surprise, it will change the Labour party’s position.

He suggested the EU might offer the UK a new deal on freedom of movement. He said:
I think there could be a window - not yet, not certainly this side of the German election - in which freedom of movement as a principle could be accepted but with limits at the rate of which it is implemented. That is not a new idea. That is exactly what happens when new countries join the European Union. If the economies are out of balance, it could be argued that you should have a cap on the rate of it.

www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jul/18/third-of-voters-back-second-referendum-on-brexit-poll-suggests-politics-live

Very true Ron. On both points
I find it sad how far we've fallen since the heady heights of 2012. Having said that, the Olympic stadium is today much as it was back then, warm and accepting.