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Brexit

Westministenders: Transition

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 11/07/2017 22:02

Last thread opener, it was all about the government buzz word being shown to listen at every opportunity.

Now transition is creeping in as people realise that no we can't just do a settlement, arrange a new trade deal with the EU and have a whole host of other deals in place in two years.

Who'd have thought.

We will be getting Brexit because we give in to threats of terrorism. Not quite getting how that takes back control.

But Brexit will be good. It will be glorious. And in the long term we will be better off for it.

Er ok.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
whatwouldrondo · 18/07/2017 12:25

I didn't kiss the Blarny stone. I have the utmost admiration for someone who can hang upside down from a high wall and kiss something that looks very slimy. It takes that sort of courage /confidence to be erudite. I count stage fright / anxiety in the face of public speaking alongside vertigo amongst the things that I have had to overcome. One of those things where there is probably a correlation between being predisposed to an action and the folklore.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/07/2017 12:37

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

whatwouldrondo · 18/07/2017 13:10

Davies has no advisor on the Science sector to brief him for the talks, one of TMs 12 negotiating priorities. He clearly has none on the other priorities either from the lack of briefing in front of him at the meeting. If it is as complicated as a moon landing maybe he should have at least one Scientist on board says Mike Galsworthy Plenty on the job market at the moment as a result of Brexit..... www.timeshighereducation.com/news/brexit-department-lacks-scientific-adviser-talks-get-under-way

He reminds me of a prat who used to move around an industry sector I dealt with, always managing to stay one step ahead of his own incompetence. His employer's would always be willing to fobb him off on a competitor who would think, because he could just about manage to give them enough in interview, they were getting an inside track but then find there was no substance. It is like Davis moving through his various roles and May was the total idiot who fell for his facile ignorant Conservative Home article even after he has manifested incompetence in the past.

It used to drive me up the wall because every time he appeared on the opposite negotiating team I would see the other side ranged against us with beaming smiles confidant they had the upper hand because he had negotiated with us before Then their faces would fall in the coming hours and days as it became obvious he hadn't a clue in spite of the fact that every other time I had finally agreed, in return for concessions, to have him taken aside by someone who did have a clue and taken through the numbers so that we could at least make some progress on common ground. He made it through four of the biggest players before early retirement....

BigChocFrenzy · 18/07/2017 13:18

I wonder how many former Labour & Liberal voters voters were encouraged to vote Tory by recent antics of Kezia - and other Unionists - urging Scottish voters to vote tactically against the SNP to support the UK Hmm

prettybird · 18/07/2017 13:19

Re the Scots voting or not for Labour or the Tories, it should also be remembered that Kezia Dugdale (leader of Scottish Labour) told Labour voters in the Borders and Highlands to vote Tory in order to get the SNP out ShockAngry

ElenaGreco123 · 18/07/2017 13:36

I bet Kezia's girlfriend did not appreciate that either, being an SNP MSP.

HashiAsLarry · 18/07/2017 14:41

Because something having an historical folklore context means it can't be used in a derogatory way Hmm

HashiAsLarry · 18/07/2017 14:43

Davies has no advisor on the Science sector to brief him for the talks, one of TMs 12 negotiating priorities.

Experts dear, experts

whatwouldrondo · 18/07/2017 15:08

Hashi Not my point. The folklore is there, nothing wrong with that in itself, and part of culture and identity. It may be there is even a grain of truth in it. It does not mean it can be used in a derogatory way / to stereotype people.

I am used to "eeh by gum" jokes. My brother still says "eeh by" in everyday conversation without any self consciousness. However when someone takes it on to the all Northerners / Yorkshiremen are thick / mean stereotype then i find it offensive, not least because I have encountered people who have had an impact on my life and work who meant it. One of them actually paired it, finding it highly amusing that I could be a combination of thick Northerner and "bog Irish", and all really a manifestation of his resentment that he had to deal with a woman in business. Ugh.

HashiAsLarry · 18/07/2017 15:18

Ron that wasn't aimed at you Wine
The wine is for the confusion caused, not to be aimed at you either Grin

HashiAsLarry · 18/07/2017 15:18

Apparently my phone prefers wine to grins tol

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 18/07/2017 15:34

I am sorry you are wrong to imagine that the 13 Tory MPs in Scotland are the reason we are where we are.

I am sorry, you are wrong to imagine that I think that. I said, and you quoted, one of the reasons.

For the avoidance of doubt, here are the people I blame for Brexit.

  1. David Cameron, for calling the referendum.
  2. Anyone who regards Brexit as the worst thing to happen to the UK since the war, but didn't allow that to deter them from voting for DC's Brexit referendum manifesto pledge in 2015 (especially if bacon sandwiches had anything to do with it).
  3. Everyone else.
  4. Scotland's 13 Tory MPs.

I am particularly annoyed with group #2. I hope that clears things up. Don't think I'll make off-the-cuff comments on this thread again.

Incidently, here is what Dugdale actually said: “The reality is the vast majority of seats across Scotland, it’s only the Labour party that can beat the SNP.

“There are a few differences in the Borders and the Highlands where the Tories might be better placed but right across Scotland’s centre belt, where the vast majority of Scotland’s population lives, the only party that can beat the SNP is the Labour party.”

This is admittedly a clanger, but my suspicion is that it was intended as an acknowledgement that the Tories were ahead of Labour in the polls in some parts of Scotland. Badly worded, yes. Unwise, yes. But I think she's taken more flack for this than is reasonable. And I say this as someone who has very little time for Dugdale's leadership of Scottish Labour.

LurkingHusband · 18/07/2017 15:43

Seems Brexit will allow the UK to really fire up the retro feel by reintroducing smoking

As this report notes, once free of the EU and their niggardly insistence that tobacco is bad, we'll know where the smoke will come from.

Now, about those big mirrors ...

LurkingHusband · 18/07/2017 15:52

However when someone takes it on to the all Northerners / Yorkshiremen are thick / mean stereotype then i find it offensive,

Funnily enough (well, I did laugh) I saw a stand-up on DVD last night who did a joke about Yorkshirefolk ...

They were expressing their pride about "super Saturday" at the 2012 Olympics, where Jessica Ennis, Greg Rutherford and Mo Farah won gold and noted "only two of these are English ... Jessica Ennis is from Yorkshire"

(Gods' own country etc ???)

Motheroffourdragons · 18/07/2017 15:59

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

LurkingHusband · 18/07/2017 16:01

1. David Cameron, for calling the referendum.

For me, it's a tad deeper than that ...

  1. He didn't have the backbone to stand up to the sniping of the Eurosceptics. Even John Bloody Major had the spine to carry through with his "put up or shut up threat" (n.b. they shut up ....)

  2. Cut from the same cloth as Theresa May, his arrogance meant that we got a bargain basement referendum straight out of the "Corrupt Countries Annual 1978", with absolutely no integrity whatsoever. I have seen better organised school sports days. I suspect it took longer to count the votes than it did to draft the sodding thing.

I'm sure Oscar Wilde would have been able to deliver a pithy epithet on the situation of two Tory leaders coming horribly unstuck less than 12 months apart because of their arrogance.

"To have one complete idiot as party leader may be a misfortune. To have two starts to look like incompetence carelessness ..."

Cailleach1 · 18/07/2017 16:25

David Cameron, 1, 2, and 3. As PM of the country, he was derelict in his duty. Not thought out and didn't care really. He hobbled the Remain campaign. The Party was of more importance. So leader of the party ahead of the country.

I hold no understanding for people who will be whinging that the Leave campaign misrepresented things. Aside from what I would regard as fraud. The leaflets deposited in hospitals with the NHS logo telling people to vote Leave to protect the NHS would fall into this category, in my opinion. Other than that, you would want to have come down in the last shower to take any heed of the bullshttrs of the Leave campaign. Gove, Leadsom, Hoey, Mordaunt (lying on TV wrt veto). That is before the Kippers. And the array of (in my opinion) shifty pundits saying they could do things in contravention of WTO rules. A larger collection of dodgy gits nesting on mainstream media, I have never witnessed. They made snake oil salesmen look sincere. It was so obvious they were pissing down your back and telling you it was raining.

Of course, Cameron put no arrangement in place to ensure lies were pulled. So back to him.

LurkingHusband · 18/07/2017 16:46

The problem is Brexit, like the War on Drugs, is seen as an enabler for both Labour and Conservative. Hence the almost "how dare you question it !" attitude from the cheerleading media.

And like the war on drugs, Brexit will cost a kings ransom, leave a trail of ruined lives in it's wake, and have fuck all to show on the upside. (Except to have caused the Chinese pharmaceutical industry to advance by decades ahead of ours).

Terror. Paedophilia. Drugs. The trinity of subjects you can never discuss rationally. Now with added "Brexit".

whatwouldrondo · 18/07/2017 16:50

Lurking As I recall Yorkshire came well up the medal tables in 2012....

www.theguardian.com/uk/the-northerner/2012/aug/13/yorkshire-olympic-medals-gold-tourism-leeds-york-dales-sheffield-hull

I did think even as I wrote it of all the Monty Python Yorkshire sketches, but decided that was alright because it was Sheffield's own Michael Palin who is of course even nicer than Trudeau....

HashiAsLarry · 18/07/2017 16:54

I seem to remember poor Greg Rutherford 'not counting' to some as he was ginger. Though if I remember rightly, gingers seem to have a good return of medals to appearances.

LurkingHusband · 18/07/2017 16:55

As I recall Yorkshire came well up the medal tables in 2012....

All that Viking blood, innit ? Grin

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 18/07/2017 18:11

These car deals are a good example of "be careful what you wish for".

Treasury Committee @CommonsTreasury
Statement by @NickyMorgan01 on the Brexit reassurances offered by the Government to Toyota and Nissan

Westministenders: Transition
BigChocFrenzy · 18/07/2017 18:44

(Times paywall) Britain spends billions on flawed F‑35s

< or how Britain "wings it" again* and wastes £12 billion on dangerous kit from the USA* >

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-spends-billions-on-flawed-fighter-jets-qrtj95kvh

The full scale of problems facing the F-35 Lightning II:

The “stealth” jet cannot transmit data to British ships or older planes without revealing its position to the enemy. Grin < Angry NO, actually this could kill many UK service personnel >

Broadband on Britain’s principal aircraft carrier is four times weaker than that for an average UK household, severely hampering the jet’s abilities.

• A test pilot had to land in almost total darkness after night vision failed in the plane’s £309,000 helmet.

Its £12 billion software system is vulnerable to cyberattack and Britain will not be able to test its security independently.

• The defence department in charge of computer networks essential to the plane’s operation must find savings of £400 million this year.

Falls in the value of the pound against the dollar have exposed British taxpayers to more than £1 billion in extra costs.
....
The US-led F-35 programme has ballooned into the most expensive weapons project in history.
Britain, which has pledged to spend more than £12 billion on the new jets and aircraft carriers by 2021, is to buy 138 F-35s.

The first tranche of 48 will be the B variant — the same type that the US had to ground last month because of software glitches.

The first squadron will arrive at RAF Marham next August and will be deployed on HMS Queen Elizabeth, the first of two new carriers, from 2020.

Insiders fear that a failure to invest in military communication will diminish one of the plane’s key selling points:
its ability to share data from advanced sensors with older aircraft and the carrier.

HMS Queen Elizabeth has a broadband connection of only eight megabits, four times weaker than that for an average British household.

With such low bandwidth, the F-35 will not be able to send data on enemy threats back to ground forces while in flight. Hmm
.....
General Sir Richard Barrons, who was in charge of the military’s information networks until last year:
“You need enough capacity to communicate with all of the other platforms: ships, aircraft and headquarters.
[The Queen Elizabeth] may look impressive as a ship but technologically it’s stuck ten years ago.” Hmm < already ?? >
....
He said it was “utterly pathetic” that Britain had prioritised “metal and platforms” over “warfare in the information age”.
....
Yet defence staff have failed to buy a critical system enabling the plane to “talk to” other aircraft while maintaining stealth capability.
< cost savings, of course. Someone maybe got a promotion out of this ? >
....
To communicate, it has to switch to an unsecured wavelength called Link 16, which could give away its position to an enemy Shock < facepalm >
....
“The F-35 can transmit in Link 16, but that is quite easy for adversaries to detect.”

Upgrading satellite broadband across the RAF and navy, and buying technology to enable the F-35 to communicate securely, would cost up to £1 billion,
Sir Richard said.

Without this, Britain may as well “have recycled some old Harrier jets and put them on the carrier, because you would just have a fighter.” < and saved £12 billion >

The F-35 is still in development, but the number of faults identified by independent experts has worried many. “It is unbelievably abnormal to have this level of problems in every aspect,”
Pierre Sprey, a US aviation expert, said.

“Manoeuvrability is appallingly bad.Shock

It has terrific problems trying to fly fast at low altitude.Shock

It overheats and when you detect the overheating you have to open the bomb bay doors to cool the missiles that are inside Shock

The logistic computers are a horrible mess and it is crippling the ability to be able to move the aeroplanes from one airfield to another.”Shock

The F-35-B version bought by Britain appears to cost about £153 million each [instead of the £77-100 million published]
.....
Such figures are estimates as the full contract terms are not public.
“No one outside of the Pentagon and Lockheed Martin knows what the F-35 actually costs, and even then the Pentagon can’t really say,”

The MoD said that it was committed to the F-35, which was “on time, within costs and offers the best capability for our armed forces”. Hmm

It said all the issues with the plane were under “active management” and that as issues are found, solutions are developed. Hmm

LurkingHusband · 18/07/2017 18:49

He said it was “utterly pathetic” that Britain had prioritised “metal and platforms” over “warfare in the information age”.

There's a very old saying about the army being equipped to fight the last war ...

Without this, Britain may as well “have recycled some old Harrier jets and put them on the carrier, because you would just have a fighter.” < and saved £12 billion >

That's a disingenuous suggestion, as AFAIK the UK got rid of all it's Harriers at a cut-down price to the USAF "for spares". A decision which was criticised at the time (but of course, no one was listening).

Cailleach1 · 18/07/2017 18:51

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-halt-brexit-talks-michel-barnier-brussels-david-davis-a7847641.html

Quelle surprise! If talks are halted, I presume the clock is still ticking. Only the UK's precious time is being wasted and it's inhabitants are the ones who are being shortchanged by the shower of wasters in gov't. So, the turning up unprepared look wasn't an affectation. Davis didn't even bother staying. He should just have skyped in for the hour. All the 'it is not as complicated as it seems' to the Brexit Committee was the baloney it appeared to be. Davis wasn't burdened 'cos he wasn't looking at the myriad of gordian knots which needed to be unravelled.