Westministenders: Transition

[RedToothBrush]

Last thread opener, it was all about the government buzz word being shown to listen at every opportunity.

Now transition is creeping in as people realise that no we can't just do a settlement, arrange a new trade deal with the EU and have a whole host of other deals in place in two years.

Who'd have thought.

We will be getting Brexit because we give in to threats of terrorism. Not quite getting how that takes back control.

But Brexit will be good. It will be glorious. And in the long term we will be better off for it.

Er ok.

[Mrsmartell08]

Seething
Yes
I can do that

[squoosh]

I hope Red is okay. I'm going to sit down here with my glass of wine and seethe at the Labour Party, and the gutless fuckery going on in the American Senate re. the healthcare repeal. And wait patiently for the next thread.

[DividedKingdom]

S.O.S. @RedToothBrush

[pointythings]

Are any of us going to be bold enough to take on Red's mantle/usurp her throne and start a new thread? that should have read

FFS this keyboard is driving me mad.

[SwedishEdith]

Bonnie Greer‏ @Bonn1eGreer 10m10 minutes ago

#LordKerr, man who wrote #Article50: "I wrote it to expel a dictatorship. Not for this. #Brexit is a mistake."-@CNN

[pointythings]

Are any of going to bold enough to take on Red's mantle/usurp her throne and start a new thread?

[SwedishEdith]

Can't work out Barry Gardiner's strategy. He's basically saying it's best for the UK to stay in the EU. But not saying it. He has no need to be Corbyn's poodle - his credibility and reputation rose enormously during the GE campaign.

Meanwhile, have fun with this.

chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/liam-foxinator/neighkpnbclgljfgdmijhabhgifdhabn?hl=en

[squoosh]

Labour should back the single market. Barry Gardiner is wrong

Thank you Heidi Alexander. At least not all Labour MPs have taken leave of their senses.

'It was only back in December that Barry was quite rightly mocking arch-Brexiteer and Tory MP Bill Cash by suggesting that he should add “No to prosperity and jobs” to his list of “No to the single market. No to the customs union. No to the European court”.'

But he's busy toeing Corbyn's Brexit line now. Like a good little boy.

[Mrsmartell08]

Yeah
Need to sort mine and the kids EU passports out

[LurkingHusband]

That is unless we can get on that one-way trip to Mars ? (We're both up for that IRL - and it should be cheaper than Switzerland).

For some folk, the anger and passion around the referendum result might be subsiding. For us, it's only getting worse, as even our worst fears on how dreadfully shit it will be are being exceeded daily.

The only upside is DS has his EU citizenship safe, so can take advantage wherever he wishes. But it'll be a shame about his friends.

[Mrsmartell08]

LH 😔😔😔😔😔

[LurkingHusband]

Well, there's 3 ways things can go ...

1. Labour support stalls where it is - in which case everyone can be right about the reasons
   
   
2. Labour support continues to grow - in which case there is a good argument that whatever they are doing is working, and they should do more of it. (Well put to one side the fact that no one can know what is working ...)
   
   
3. Labour support reverses - in which case, whatever Labour are doing isn't working, and they should change direction. Which would be a lot easier if Labour knew what they were doing. Let alone doing wrong.
   
   It's a sobering thought that I, and MrsLH will be long dead and buried before we have any semblance of what we might call "normal" again. I guess it's our punishment for failing our children.

[ElenaGreco123]

That Barry Gardiner article just shows how little difference there is between Tory and Labour at the mo. Labour = Liam Fox.

Exactly. I told my Labour MP in no uncertain terms that if I wanted to support UKIP Light so would have voted for them.

[prettybird]

Nothing we haven't known discussed on here ad nauseum but I'm sure articles like this are going to increase in frequency as it becomes more and more evident that all the things that the pesky experts warned would be difficult or complicated are, well, actually difficult and complicated . Ignoring them doesn't make the issues go away.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-eu-negotiator-europe-euratom-airline-safety-negotiations-theresa-may-worse-anyone-guessed-a7858586.html

[LurkingHusband]

Fact Check: do new EU rules make it impossible to renationalise railways?

Not sure facts have any more place in Corbyns universe than they do in Theresa Mays ....

Whilst there is nothing wrong in principle with nationalised industries, the UKs postwar experience would suggest otherwise. My childhood memories of the British car industry is basically a framed picture of "the Rover" voting to strike. If you weren't around in the UK in the 70s the official Leyland calendar was 12 different photographs of massed pickets. You told the month by what the strikers were wearing.

I'm guessing that EU rules will prevent the Corbyn vision coming to pass - hence his failure to prevent Brexit.

If that is the case, would anyone here agree he's playing a very dangerous game with the future of the Labour party when a number of Remainers realise they have been duped into another way to Brexit ?

Maybe the LibDems are in the ascendant ?

The longer this much anticipated election takes to materialise, the more pressure on Labour to "come clean".

[squoosh]

That Barry Gardiner article just shows how little difference there is between Tory and Labour at the mo. Labour = Liam Fox.

Fuck my life.

[howabout]

Lots of issues with causation versus correlation in the LSE study among other things. However their conclusions seem implausible in the face of the UK post 2007 productivity puzzle. If productivity and therefore wages had recovered their normal trend then the UK would be 20% richer per the ONS. Per the BoE's Andy Haldane this is in part due to economic policy prioritising jobs over productivity.

//www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/24/how-has-brexit-vote-affected-uk-economy-july-verdict?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=236422&subid=18573163&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

//www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/03/21/boes-andy-haldane-says-uk-low-productivity-caused-by-both-bad-management-and-low-interest-rates/#3a61ae3b2ef9

[SapphireStrange]

Eeeeeowwwfftz and lonely, I'm very shaky on economics, but isn't one counter-argument that companies should just pay everyone a decent wage and ensure fair conditions etc, rather than taking advantage of people being willing to work for less?

[howabout]

Barry Gardiner on the Single Market, Customs Unions and EEA.

//www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/leaving-eu-single-market-customs-union-brexit-britain-europe?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=236422&subid=18573163&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

[SwedishEdith]

theconversation.com/fact-check-do-new-eu-rules-make-it-impossible-to-renationalise-railways-61180

Fact Check: do new EU rules make it impossible to renationalise railways?

Verdict

"The new EU regulations promote competition for the market between rail operators irrespective of ownership structure, but not privatisation. As far as renationalisation is concerned the reality is that, unless the rules are interpreted in an extreme way, they do not make it any easier or more difficult than the structure in place at the moment. The only thing that the new system will almost certainly rule out is state monopolies that do not have to compete with rivals to win franchises, renationalised or otherwise."

Tenders must be subject to competition, not necessarily privatisation. It's supposed to work in the interests of the customer, is how I read it.

[Eeeeeowwwfftz]

I presume you mean this one: cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit05.pdf

But there's also this:
fullfact.org/news/do-uk-immigrant-workers-have-higher-average-earnings-uk-born-workers/
Which is older and less exhaustive. However it does make one interesting comparison, which is between migrants from different parts of the eu. We find that migrants from the post 04 EU countries are (or were) in less well paid jobs.

Whether you consider that to be a positive contribution to the overall economic health of the nation, or exploitation of cheap migrant labour I guess is a matter of taste.

[lonelyplanetmum]

Regarding JC's comments he needs briefing on that detailed LSE study. It showed there were no sharper falls in pay or bigger reduction in job opportunities in areas with more EU migration than other parts of the country. But JC wasn't talking wages or employment was he, he mentioned conditions, which didn't make sense either.


The LSE study proved the overall benefits,that goods and services consumed by migrants raised the British economy and actually created more opportunities for UK-born workers.

[Motheroffourdragons]

frumpety haha - yes - or it is dished out willy nilly to bribe every other company that makes moving noises....I wonder what it was, we never got to the bottom of that, did we ?

[frumpety]

Is Red away ? nearly at the end of this thread ....

[frumpety]

The care sector already uses a lot of 'imported' labour , or it certainly does in my area .

Mother want to place a bet on that deal expiring in about 2020/21 ?