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Brexit

Westministenders: Transition

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 11/07/2017 22:02

Last thread opener, it was all about the government buzz word being shown to listen at every opportunity.

Now transition is creeping in as people realise that no we can't just do a settlement, arrange a new trade deal with the EU and have a whole host of other deals in place in two years.

Who'd have thought.

We will be getting Brexit because we give in to threats of terrorism. Not quite getting how that takes back control.

But Brexit will be good. It will be glorious. And in the long term we will be better off for it.

Er ok.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 17/07/2017 19:33

David Davis' approach doesn't scare everyone:

Fraser Nelson
Fraser Nelson @FraserNelson
Picture sums it up: tables groaning with weight of pointless EU paperwork when just basic facts are needed. Symbolises what we won't miss.

Westministenders: Transition
HashiAsLarry · 17/07/2017 19:35

mother
You forget yourself. You're still viewing those people as, you know people. When you stop doing that you can legitimately do and say what you like about and to them. And it's not othering, because that would suggest they have some legitimacy.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 17/07/2017 19:36

Quite why he is so confident that this government has even grasped the basic facts is beyond me. Apols if this has been posted before.

Westministenders: Transition
Valentine2 · 17/07/2017 20:24

I am beyond angry on that picture. David Davis....
We are dying a slow death, aren't we?
I would nearly get the sack if I turned up to a crucial meeting like that.

Valentine2 · 17/07/2017 20:26

Quite a lot of us watching shed tears too, laughing hysterically can do that to you.
I jumped up and down for a bit longer than any reasonable person should. Grin Mind you, it was the first time in ten years may be.

lalalonglegs · 17/07/2017 20:28

Is it true he only stayed an hour? Why?

RedToothBrush · 17/07/2017 20:51

mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1A21AF
EU and Britain to present post-Brexit plan on WTO membership

The European Union and Britain plan to put forward a joint proposal for reform of the terms of their World Trade Organization (WTO) membership in September or October, an EU source said on Monday, as London negotiates to leave the EU.

The two sides are also discussing sharing liabilities from trade disputes including WTO litigation over Airbus (AIR.PA) subsidies in a long-running case with the United States, the EU source said.

“Currently we are in talks with the United Kingdom to come to a joint approach on the matter, on all the aspects of the divorce, with regard to the WTO. And I would think that, come the month of September/October, we will be able to come jointly to the rest of the (WTO) membership,” the EU source said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The joint approach would address aspects of the EU's WTO membership terms, known as its WTO "schedules", that are not easily split between Britain and the other 27 EU members: agricultural tariff quotas, agricultural subsidies and commitments on services trade.

That sounds awfully like sharing WTO membership with the EU after Brexit'...

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HashiAsLarry · 17/07/2017 21:09

😂😂😂

  • Butbutbut we don't have to pay them a penny to trade under our own wto.
A few weeks later
  • Hang on, we will pay but please share your wto with us.
RedToothBrush · 17/07/2017 21:12

Robert Peston FB post from 2hrs ago:

A minister has just told me that in Downing Street this morning he and colleagues were forced to swear the equivalent of a blood oath that he would cease to leak to the media. Which, as you will have spotted, he seems to have broken by speaking to me.

Therein lies the Tory Party's biggest problem at the moment: after the calamitous election she decided to call, her MPs and ministers neither feel a duty of loyalty to her nor are scared of her (now if only there existed a couple of Kray-like minders who could help her out).

So we are either entertained or horrified - depending on our allegiances - by a spectacle of a civil war in the government over the two most important issues of the moment, namely how to leave the EU, and whether and how to end austerity.

Divisions between Conservative MPs on a choice between hard and soft Brexit and between stricter or looser deficit reduction are both visceral and theological.

And by the way, today's announcement by the education secretary of additional money for schools, to protect per-pupil funding, tells us the economic spat will continue - because all the additional money will come from savings to be made elsewhere in the education department's budget, rather than an increase in overall government funding for its activities.

In other words, the Chancellor has not eased the department's funding limits. Austerity still rules.

Also, in bowing to pressure to ease the pain for schools, Greening may be wreaking modest economic damage - in that she may be cutting the kind of capital spending which would bring benefits to productivity and growth.

What is to become of a Tory Party that has done what those of us of a certain footballing allegiance think of uncomfortably as "doing an Arsenal" - namely in the space of a record-breaking three months tumbling from perceived invincibility to actual and humiliating near-capitulation?

Well Tories need to do one big and very difficult thing - which is to reconnect with voters under 55, and especially those under 35, who have switched to Labour in their legions.

Theresa May is showing no sign of having a plan for that - but then nor do any of her senior colleagues and rivals.

In other words, if Tory MPs and members were behaving in a rational way, they would probably beg May to stay till they have the hint of a rehabilitation plan and the shadow of a leader able to execute that plan.

But once MPs get a taste for self-immolation, they rarely succumb to reason.

Which may mean that unless and until she goes, the Conservatives will find it impossible to agree on what they are for, in this era of spectacular uncertainties.

And the party's electoral prospects would deteriorate yet more.

So although few MPs will admit they want another leadership contest in September, again I find none who are certain she won't be gone in the autumn.

Reconstruction with the under 55 goes hand in hand with social responsibility of others in society and giving people value rather than just money and remaining in the EU.

The exact opposite of the principle of the Tory party!

Kind of an issue.

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RedToothBrush · 17/07/2017 21:23

Re Davis only staying an hour

Arj Singh @ singharj
learnt in Brussels today: there are 98 UK staff here, "the 98", around double number on EU Brexit taskforce. Talks in English and French

Davis's team. Davis has delegated to his minions. We don't sound terribly efficient.

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Valentine2 · 17/07/2017 21:26

Reconstruction with the under 55 goes hand in hand with social responsibility of others in society and giving people value rather than just money and remaining in the EU.
I have been talking to a few people around my village in the last few days. If my "feeling" is anything to go by considering the election she called and lost, Tories are going to be wipes off if an election is to happen now to them.
Our MP is an utterly DavidDavis-style numpty looking fella who is doing all he can to destroy his majority.

lalalonglegs · 17/07/2017 21:29

So he stayed for a self-defeating photo op and then left the most important negotiations since WW2 to the underlings to sort out? I'd ask what he's playing at but (a) I don't think he knows (b) I have more faith in the staff that he has delegated the task to than him. But still Hmm.

RedToothBrush · 17/07/2017 21:34

Faisal Islam @ FaisalIslam
vote expected in Commons on this fiery late night debate on Govt limiting Opposition Day debate and Private Member Bills in 2 yr session...

The government trying to limit opposition lead debates and private member's bill. Sounds very promising democratic.

Chris Bryant is currently apparently listing laws that began as private member's bills - from ending the death penalty to votes for women

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LurkingHusband · 17/07/2017 21:35

.

Westministenders: Transition
RedToothBrush · 17/07/2017 21:38

I should correct this is Bryant's bill to increase backbencher time. So the government don't want it (and it's part of the reasons Davis returned from Brussels for the vote).

There are in theory lots of Tory Backbenchers who would like the idea of this bill. But will they defy the whip.

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RedToothBrush · 17/07/2017 21:40

Faisal Islam @ FaisalIslam
Commons now voting Private Members motion - only 8th division since Parliament returned after election.

Almost like they're being avoided.

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HesterThrale · 17/07/2017 22:15

Argument for a second referendum. Remain side strengthening. Very interesting FT article:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/b3630088-6ac6-11e7-b9c7-15af748b60d0

HesterThrale · 17/07/2017 22:22

Tonight's vote defeated:

Westministenders: Transition
Cailleach1 · 17/07/2017 23:35

I'm lowering the tone, but this made me laugh. What with the foot in the mouth and the flag shorts. I don't know whose exposed arse it is. Fox?

www.independent.co.uk/#gallery

Cailleach1 · 17/07/2017 23:37

Sorry, meant to link to current cartoon in Independent where the Con's are in a squabble on the floor while Barnier looks on waiting to hold talks with someone.

HashiAsLarry · 17/07/2017 23:39

Thinking of the entire NI issue, this thread has been illuminating. If there are people out there who refuse to see a group of people as different ethnically unless those differences can be used to be derogatory, it's no wonder there's a probably purposeful lack of grasp of the situation at hand there. No wonder we're sailing up shit creek without a paddle.

OlennasWimple · 18/07/2017 02:31

Red - the day Damian Green tells TM it's time to go, she will go. If he wields the knife, she will have fallen very low indeed. The same could probably be said of James Brokenshire and a couple of others around the table. For all the "Theresa doesn't do the normal networking" stuff, she has built up several very long-standing working partnerships

TM and Gove loathe each other with a passion

howabout · 18/07/2017 08:47

Hashi there really is no "other". Per wiki "Fox was born and raised in a Catholic of Irish heritage family in East Kilbride, Scotland, and brought up in a council house that his parents later bought."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liam_Fox

Re the National article yesterday, that is also mince (How Scots refer to each other talking rubbish). Liam Fox was on the Scottish news last night because his wife's family is involved in a planning decision a couple of miles down the road from where he grew up. The ward has a Conservative councillor in a Council with more Conservative councillors than SNP or Labour. As planning is a devolved matter the constituents were appealing to their local Conservative Holyrood MSP. They could also speak to their local Conservative Westminster MP.

Liam could have a word with Fluffy Mundell or fellow Scottish Cabinet Brexiteer Michael Gove. If he really wants to think about a Celtic Alliance to prevent imposition of English Brexit he could have a word with Welsh David Davis.

I, along with the vast majority of Scots, have absolutely no idea what percentage of me is "Irish", "Scottish", "English" or something else entirely.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/07/2017 09:06

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/07/2017 09:16

Some people used to regard me as very tiresome for objecting to being called "wog"
or objecting to racist English stereotyping of Arab people & culture,
or the century+ of colonizing and meddling in the ME.

Some now ask why I don't just forget past racism against me, or the disastrous effects of British colonialism
The resentment will remain until I croak.

I can understand why those who are (fully) Irish often have very definite views that the English in particular are racist towards them and have committed horrendous atrocities against Ireland, including during the more recent Troubles.

The suggestion of some Brexiters that the RoI should ally with the U.K. and leave the EU is ridiculous.
As is the suggestion that they, or NI Irish Republicans and Nationalists would blame anyone other than the U.K. for any negative effects on Ireland from Brexit.

NI may yet be a roadblock in the type of Brexit deal that May and DD want.