Westministenders: Transition

[RedToothBrush]

Last thread opener, it was all about the government buzz word being shown to listen at every opportunity.

Now transition is creeping in as people realise that no we can't just do a settlement, arrange a new trade deal with the EU and have a whole host of other deals in place in two years.

Who'd have thought.

We will be getting Brexit because we give in to threats of terrorism. Not quite getting how that takes back control.

But Brexit will be good. It will be glorious. And in the long term we will be better off for it.

Er ok.

Majority of people 'happy to pay more tax to give nurses, police and paramedics a pay rise'
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/public-sector-pay-cap-lift-pay-tax-theresa-may-1-per-cent-nurse-paramedic-police-a7843006.html?amp

From that Hammond article about public sector pay being too high:

"Later in the meeting both Boris Johnson and the PM said we should not say public sector workers are overpaid"

It's as good as admitting they agree with him but are canny enough not to say it out loud .

If the UK reneges

it can kiss goodbye to any future trade deals.

No responsible government in the world would allow a deal with a country that has a track record of abandoning it's commitments for political expediency - the sort of thing a country might do after a coup.

For all the Leavers bluster, this is another "inconvenient truth". Not only must the UK settle it's bill. It must be seen to settle it's bill. Something which is no longer in our gift.

It seems the more "control" we take back, the less influence we have.

At the WTO, old adversaries like Argentina are expected to block the UK;

the admission process involves approval of quotas and definition of terms for each subcategory of goods - lots of potential for any normally insignificant country to be obstructive.

Any old colonies with a grudge may like in, or just any country who wants concessions about visas, more aid, to export goods to the UK with lower safety / checking standards etc

Without WTO it's not a matter of a sanctions, just makes it very difficult to trade with any country at all, without a specific trade deal with them

• and currently there is only a promise from Canada, another 190 or so countries to go.

WTO doesn't really deal with services, which are most of the UK's exports. GATTS is regarded by those most involved as completely inadequate in practice atm.

No sign that France, Netherlands etc have any plans to build customs facilities to handle U.K. imports.
Of course they'll want to know the exact terms of Brexit first, then decide if they wish to build the infrastructure and who will pay for it.

If the U.K. reneges on what it previously promised to pay, I expect it will be a long time before any of the E27 - except the RoI - are prepared to build up infrastructure for UK imports

They don't need to impose sanctions or start a trade war, just not invest in enabling U.K. imports.

Back on the days of VCRs, France apparently allocated ONE small port with one customs officer to inspect Japanese VCR imports.
Which they did in horrendous detail
They let in 40 VCRs per year. Not 40 lorries, not crates, just 40 VCRs

I am really pissed off by these claims that public sector workers are paid loads. Firstly it is when you take into account pensions, though I am indeed looking forward to my pension, firstly I am increasingly unlikely to get my hands on it before I keel over as they keep moving the age back, secondly knowing you will get decent pension in 30 odd years time does not help you pay the rent and feed your kids today.

Secondly the wage comparison does not compare like with like. The public sector tends to have a greater proportion of skilled roles requiring higher qualifications than the private sector also while some areas are well paid in the public sector, such as your bog standards admin jobs, others such as IT pay very, very badly compared to private sector.

Thirdly you just can't compare a job that involves diagnosing deadly illness, or walking into a burning building with a graduate office worker. It is not the same FFS! A job that requires you to be responsible for actual people living or dieing, where you yourself could die, absolutely should be paid a bloody good wage.

I do not think everyone in the public sector needs to be paid loads, but there are definitely a number of roles that we pay ridiculously low wages for the actual job they do.

Lots of confused numbering there...rage removes my ability to count apparently.

<a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160107090910/www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_383355.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160107090910/www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_383355.pdf

I do remember a report comparing private and public sector pay a few years ago which was shelved because it didn't give the "right" answers. I've found the attached but I don't think it was this one.

There needs to be a fully functioning country for all it's citizens/subjects.

I don't disagree, cailleach. I'm just saying there are people who seem to be in charge or enabling those in charge (e.g. Sections of press) who have a different agenda. If you want total transformation rather than a continuing of the status quo, you need to destabilise the country first. Make it seem there are no other options to the v unpalatable medicine you are prescribing. Austerity took advantage of the banking crisis to persuade us that weakened public services and low pay was the price we had to pay. This would be the next step.

The anti Hammond campaign is a small part. Hammond isn't in the Brexit camp, and talks common sense about Brexit at least He's potentially a candidate to replace May so he has to be discredited. It's no coincidence that Murdoch papers are the recipients and publishers of these leaks.

I confess Mike Galsworthy makes me go a bit squiffy

Ha ha, yes, me too. He knows it though - all those moody pouty vlogs.

I'm sorry but I am going to jump in with both feet on the slight thread derail on primary schooling because it is something I feel very strongly about having experienced miserable primary school years that branded me stupid or lazy or both. I am so grateful that my youngest DD was at an International School for the first years of her schooling. Parents from other western countries find the British obsession with early reading and literacy skills bizarre.

The research shows that teaching those skills before 7 benefits the brightest with the most neurotypical skills (good working memory especially) but it damages the achievement of the average pupil and especially those who are either not bright or have different learning styles / neurological differences. That is why several European countries, notably Finland who do far better than the U.K. in international tables, do not even start to teach literacy skills until 7. Instead they focus in the early years on building learning skills and confidence as well as social skills. The bones of the hand do not even fully fuse in most children until 6 so they are not even fully physically equipped.

Thankfully my DD was not made to feel stupid because she was not reading at 7, she was given a programme that suited her learning style, and was not damaged by being expected to learn by memory / look /see and given the skills which enabled her to graduate with a 2.1 in English from a university ranked amongst the highest in the country. I really wonder if she would have been able to achieve that potential if she had spent her primary years in the U.K. When we returned to the UK she was regarded as not having a problem because her literacy skills had been brought up to avaerage level as a result but she had several peers who had similar differences to her who were still struggling because they had never had that tailored teaching.

1 in 10 pupils will have some form of learning difference and introducing different teaching styles into the classroom benefits all pupils, not just those who cannot rely on eg good memories.

Completely agree Bigly. It is not comparing like with like. Makes me so angry to see these misleading claims designed to stir up discontent.

Yes I think Mike Galsworthy plays the Look at moi, you can be a Scientist and a charismatic communicator card to the full

It feels like pirates are now in charge of the UK.

I know what you mean but I think that's glamourising them. It feels like a load of wealthy golf club bores are in charge of the UK atm. The kind of people you avoid on holiday.

Galsworthy should consider starting a new party really. If we're in the shallow looks matter media age, he could do a Macron. Needs to be an outsider and he'd love it

If the U.K. reneges on what it previously promised to pay, I expect it will be a long time before any of the E27 - except the RoI - are prepared to build up infrastructure for UK imports

They wouldn't spend a cent until the UK had actually paid what was owed to start with. And anyone who knows history (so fuck all of fuck all in the Brexit brigade) should know that some of these things can go own for generations.

As far as I know, the US still has Cuba on the hook for the money lost when Castro took over. And despite Obamas - welcome - thaw, it seems there is no appetite in the US to waive that bill - $7billion.

Again, knowing history (such a metropolitan liberal elite thing, I know) the UK was forced to settle the Alabama claims n 1872 resulting from the US civil war a decade previously. This is despite Palmerston predating BoJo with a "go whistle" response.

And to end on a "glass houses" note, if the UK starts abandoning international treaties, we should be prepared for a wave of tit-for-tat responses. Doubtless starting with the Treaty of Utrecht ....

The IRA have learned that a couple of well-placed bombs in the London Financial Centre strikes terror in any U.K. govt

Not to in any way devalue the horrible loss of life during the troubles or the blindness of the British government to it then but I am not convinced the current U.K. Government would experience any terror no matter where the bombs are placed, they seem immune to any sort of empathy for human suffering and it appears they have no issue with damaging London's financial centre themselves.

Each time I come on here to post something, I always find that bigly has said it first, to the point that I'm beginning to wonder if we're the same person.

Bigly I just shouted similar at old mild mannered PH. DD3 is trying to moderate my expletives atm and only permits me to say "that's disappointing" in all such situations per her P1 teacher. I feel much better for having read your version. Thank you

Ron I completely agree with you on education. The first experiences of education are really vital and the UK seems hellbent on labelling as many as possible failures at the earliest opportunity. These labels are incredibly difficult to remove both for the children themselves and their parents and teachers. Just sitting still for more than 10 minutes is an achievement for the average 4/5 year old although I'm not even sure it should be encouraged at that age.

Funny how the ultimate "public servants" ("they work for us" as per the website) don't think that the public sector pay cap should apply to them and get gold played pensions that they don't even have to retirement age to get

Hypocrites

Each time I come on here to post something, I always find that bigly has said it first, to the point that I'm beginning to wonder if we're the same person.

Well, I've certainly never seen us in the same room at the same time Eeeeeo

Galsworthy should consider starting a new party really. If we're in the shallow looks matter media age, he could do a Macron.

Oh my...! I just had a vision of Galsworthy hanging out with Tradeau and Macron being all clever, capable and handsome. I think I need to go have a little lie down.

Where do I sign up for the new party? Galsworthy for PM!

Can Brian Cox join the Galsworthy Party?

Hell Yes!

30% basic tax rate
30% of people in public sector employment (within effective full employment)
Gini co-efficient 0.25-0.30

That's the kind of balance it takes to maintain a decent society really. One where people are educated properly, fed properly, housed properly, work with dignity and people generally live in safety.

Stable population growth helps.

Because we as a nation prefer tax cuts and "sovereignty" to a decent society, we are now facing food shortages in the very near future.