Westminstenders: The Negotiations Continue - The DUP ones

[RedToothBrush]

Tomorrow is the Queen’s Speech. In honour of that the start of this thread is written in its honour:

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Immigration is bad. Except for that good immigration.
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Brexit means Brexit
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Pilot scheme.
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Money for –the DUP-- NI
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Brexit means Brexit
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The Internet is Bad. Newspapers are good.
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Brexit means Brexit.
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Britain wave your flag.
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(The Queen’s turns over the page to read the back of the A4 sheet, only to find it blank)

What's the betting the DUP wanted things which Treeza and/or her advisors (if she's got more sensible ones now) knew they couldn't get past the Tory party, never mind Parliament or the country.

Patty I would say 100%. Although it is also possible at this stage that the DUP was totally sensible and the Tories were simply arrogant and bonkers.

Elena 'DUP', 'sensible'? I say, steady on, I don't think the world's gone quite that barmy just yet.

As Labour politicians we reject hard-right Brexit and defend the single market

That letter to the Guardian is signed by 34 Labour MPs, if I've counted correctly, out of 262.

Hm.

This is only going to get worse I think.

I'm not wholly convinced labour's brexit plans are any more cohesive than the tories - although I don't think they will be quite as prepared to hurl us of a cliff lemming style.

If I was in labour I wouldn't want a general election until brexit has been dealt with.

There is no outcome of brexit that doesn't stand a high risk of ensuring the party at the forefront of this will be pretty unelectable for years to come.

On a personal level if we have to leave I would like an EFTA deal - but then there are no real advantages to leaving, in fact we will have less power and influence so what is the point?

If I was a tory mp I would be pushing for a cross party brexit - just as a degree of protection for when it all goes to shit.

I'm still seeing lib dems bounced about as possible collaborators with the conservatives. Now I don't think for a minute they would go for it but it would be interesting.

I think the LibDems may consider it. I am guessing that as a politician you are sort of programmed to be in power. It's like being offered a promotion in a normal job, you are sort of compelled to at least consider it?

I kind of hope they do. I think a lib dem/tory coalition would ultimately result in a softer (or dare I say no) brexit.

I suspect if the queens speech doesn't go through the liklihood increases.

But I would imagine one of the red lines for lib dems would be a second ref on the deal. Not sure how that would work though as I understand once the two years are up we are out...

Cherrypi thank you! You have no idea how much time I've wasted scrolling through threads

Yes wanted to add my thanks to
cherrypi... Previously I had been flipping the thread and reading upside down which is quite unsatisfactory

What 3 dots? I'm on an iPad and can't see any.

Ate you on the app? If so it's the three dots to the right of where the posters name is.

If not I think there's a thingy that says bookmark post. Hang on I'll go look on the mobile site.

Ah three dots are at the bottom of each post on the mobile site..

I don't think Vince Cable necessarily supports a second referendum.

I am sure I have heard him say he had reservations about this policy - on a platform, when he wasn't an MP.

Corbyn's plan, which is probably mainstream Labour thinking, is to give the Tories enough rope on Brexit to hand themselves for a generation.

Regardless of which PM or party is in power, Brexit will bring serious unpopularity, because of ridiculous claims and public expectations:

• the number of immigrants - won't change, whatever kind of Brexit, because business wants them
  They'll just have fewer rights, so even easier to exploit.

• No cake and eat it deal - despite a substantial number of Leavers believing in one.
  A "soft" Brexit would be regarded as betrayal by some and a "hard" Brexit will bring economic hardship

Thanks as always, Red.

On iPad

Safari:

• Bookmark a post by touching bottom right of post field. This activates a coloured square there, indicating bookmark.
• Add a photo by touching "choose file" button below the add "message" box

App:

• Bookmark a post by sliding post to the left until you see the outline tags "bookmark" and "report". Touch desired tag and the outline is filled.
• Add a photo by touching the attachment paper clip symbol below the "add message" box

Matt Chorley‏*@MattChorley* 17m17 minutes ago

The embargo means I can't tell you what is in the Queen's Speech yet, but my god it's thin rubbish

(Telegraph paywall) The DUP has a lot to gain from the Tories, but it’ll end in tears if they push them too far
< should be subtitled: "we fear May has buggered up these negotiations too >
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/20/driving-hard-bargain-tories-dup-may-end-short-changed/

On the surface, it appears Mrs May has crippled her party’s ability to negotiate by declaring on the steps of Downing Street the day after the election that she would form a Government with the help of her “friends and allies” in the DUP < yes, I thought that was asking to be held over a barrel >

Despite repeatedly that it was vital to seem ready during the Brexit talks to walk away from the negotiating table rather than accept a bad deal, the Prime Minister made clear that she wanted a deal with the DUP come what may.

This negotiating blunder delighted DUP MPs, as one of them quipped on arriving in Westminster that “We’re going shopping.”
Their shopping list comes with a considerable price tag, as party leader Arlene Foster has been pushing for billions of pounds in tax breaks and extra infrastructure spending for Northern Ireland. < pork barrel >

(Telegraph paywall) This Queen’s Speech is the Conservatives’ last chance to get a grip on the country

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/20/queens-speech-conservatives-last-chance-get-grip-country/

What should have been a perfectly straightforward confidence and supply agreement became a high-stakes act of political brinkmanship in which two obvious partners found themselves bickering rather than rising to the noble task of running the country.

Just hours before today’s State Opening of Parliament there was still no certainty that the two would even come to any arrangement.
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As the Queen presents the programme of her Government, then, it is not coherence that reigns, but confusion.
No wonder, in these circumstances, that the Government is having to abandon so much of what it proposed in its manifesto
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Bitterness and rancour are barely concealed.
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On Wednesday night, audiences of a television documentary will be treated to the spectacle of
Alan Duncan, Minister of State at the Foreign Office, telling his boss, the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, to
“stop playing games” and be part of the “stable cabinet Government we want to see”.
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So in truth this Queen’s Speech marks something else altogether – the last chance this Government has to reset a sorry state of affairs.

If I was in labour I wouldn't want a general election until brexit has been dealt with.

Whereas I - and enough voters to fill a city or three - don't want Brexit at all.

Foisting any kind of Brexit on the 48% who didn't want it; quite aside from the lies of the Leavers to achieve it, would be an insult to any democracy. Especially when there's no way of knowing if Brexiteers wanting a soft Brexit would be happy with what we get or Brexiteers wanting a hard Brexit would be happy with what we get.

Just for the lolz, if we break the population into equal 3rds over those demographics, then whatever happens, it will be what 2/3rds didn't want.

I caught up with some old Uni friends recently, and before the beers took effect we all commented on our diverse industries, and noted how leaving the EU will mean fuck all to all of them. We will all be bound by the same regulations, and having to implement new regulations.

I really would not be surprised if we ended up with a referendum on the type of Brexit, with no "Nein Danke" option. (A very niche reference, but if anyone has read "Riotous Assembly" by Tom Sharpe ... can you remember the psychologists questionnaire about masturbation ?)

I suspect the question will be "do you want to jump over the cliff, or slit you threat first"
There will be no option to refuse to jump

"jump over the cliff or slit your throat first"

LH I'll have to reread it now

I have just read Gove's interview about raising food standards AND lowering food prices as a direct result of Brexit. The farmers don't know what hit them.