Westministenders: The bookends to a year of political chaos. Just how far have we come?

[RedToothBrush]

The 15th June 2016.

The Thames was filled with a flotilla of boats in a publicity stunt for the Leave campaign to draw attention to fisheries. Nigel Farage and Kate Hoey in their heads thought they were Leonardo and Kate, but the moment was rather more titanic in nature and could not have been more Alan Partridge if they had tried. Coming up behind was Bob Gedolf in a shameful and cringeworthy display of swearing and abuse that really didn’t help the Remain camp in anyway. Largely unnoticed was a small boat with a family following it all unfold…

The next day things went from fiasco to horror.

Farage unveiled the Dog Whistle Poster and Jo Cox was murdered. And the UK seemed set on its course for 7 days later when the world was turned upside down by the referendum itself.

14th June 2017.

Fast forward 365 days later and another tragedy unfolded. This time of a very different nature but with no less political significance.
Grenfell.

A moment of national shame. A symbol of so many things that had come to pass in the previous twelve months.

The election just the previous week had changed the direction of travel we seemed to be headed and left the Prime Minister exposed and looking wildly out of touch. The Maybot was given one more chance.

And the Maybot seems to be failing the test of her party who had the grace to grant her a second chance.

The Queen dressed in the same shade of blue, May delivered her ‘victory speech’ in, ignored the security threat and visited the ranks of the poor and the forgotten. A deliberate message to May not to forget who she serves? A Queen who feels aggrieved and angry by May’s behaviour? Who knows.

As for Brexit. The government looks lost. Adrift. The ‘Fight of the Summer’ over the EU’s plan for talks sounds out the window despite the denials from the Brexit Department. Hard Brexit is still on the cards. Apparently. But what does anyone believe now? May’s and the Brexiteers domination of the agenda is shattered, its power starting to be questioned.

What next?

This evening the anger is building.

Who knows, what will happen. Some of it might be predictable, but the future is far from certain and we have definitely entered a new era. We just don’t know who will lead it, or what its ambition or what the end goal now is.

What we do know, more acutely than ever is that we are all human and the wise words of Jo Cox about having ‘More in Common’ ring though ever more strongly.

Once again we feel ‘on the brink’.

It's just Barnier reiterating what leaving the EU actually means. By definition the UK is also leaving the single market and the customs union. That's what triggering Article 50 does.

Any future arrangement will be the subject of negotiations, which will not start until at least October this year.

The A50 default, if there is no deal, is leaving everything, including the single market
Barnier is just saying this what the UK has decided
That the EU didn't leave us, we left them

BigChoc-you forgot trade deals with Qatar and Saudi.They were at the top of the Tory priority visit list.

Although why the prospect of Q and S deals is superior to the existing arrangement with the biggest trading bloc (who also happen to be our immediate neighbours) seems illogical to me.

BigChoc I half agree with you but I also think this is quite a strong statement in a press conference to actually utter the words 'it is the UK who is leaving the single market etc'. Nothing is EVER over until the final deal is agreed but the EU strategy at the moment looks very much like we want a clean Brexit. Sign here, here and here. Settle your outstanding debts. bye.

lonely particularly when the two states are embroiled in a bitter dispute which involves sanctions.

What are the chances of a state like the UK being able to trade with both in future?

Legitimately, anyway.

"Me thinks we may have world trade deals already sown up?"

Why do you think this?

I am reading the comment from Barnier has him reflecting what the current position of the Tory Government is. He is clearly saying that this is the UK's decision and not the EU's. This does not suggest to me that the door is closed from the EU side if we changed our mind, he is just making it very clear what the situation is should we carry on down the path Davis is starting.

Doh, completely missed the thread had another page and so X posted with loads of other people.

I know you are all right. A50...it is what it means. I'm in denial. If the UK is not going to be explicit about this divorce, Barnier is going to have to do it for us.

The posts about Merkel trying to explain to Trump how trade with the EU works were hilarious if tragic - no, a bilateral arrangement with Germany over cars is not possible. No, it really isn't. etc etc.

Sostenueto (No to eu tess anag.)

If Trade deals were sewn up (before we should be sewing them) surely we would see where, as the PM/ Liam Fox would be visiting?

Patty- yes it's all a bit beyond me but we would presumably have to choose Saudi or Qatari deals but not both.

https://www.ft.com/content/3c6b7224-49d0-11e7-a3f4-c742b9791d43

Or ....there again, here's a thought, what about a nice deal with the other EU member states.

These are highlights (statement by UK Brexit Dept) describing setup of talks:

Negotiation Structure

1. The negotiating rounds will consist of plenary sessions and negotiating

group meetings

1. Plenary negotiating sessions should be co-chaired by the Principals and/or Coordinators who have the overall responsibility for managing the negotiating process and provide necessary guidance, as appropriate.

1. The following initial negotiating groups have been established:

− Citizens’ rights;

− Financial Settlement;

− Other Separation issues.

In addition, a dialogue on Ireland / Northern Ireland has been launched under the authority of the Coordinators.

1. The Principals may decide to establish additional working groups, subgroups or organise breakout sessions.

1. Each round of negotiations should comprise public officials of both sides only.

Negotiating texts and other negotiating documents

1. Negotiation texts that are intended for discussion at any negotiating round should be shared at least one week in advance wherever possible.

Frequency of Negotiating Rounds

1. Negotiation rounds will be organised once every 4 weeks in principle, unless otherwise decided by mutual consent.

Negotiators may meet intersessionally to prepare negotiations, as required.

Language

• English and French will be used, as working languages, during negotiations and in working documents.
Interpretation will be provided by the European Commission.

Transparency

• For both parties the default is transparency. < so the public will be informed, instead of the secrecy that May wanted >
• It is for the Party providing the information to state what, if any, restrictions should apply to their further distribution.

citroen If the UK side ever get real, the EEA / EFTA would be open until the very last possible moment, probably even if that meant extending the 2-year A50 period

Barnier was not closing anything off, just saying what the default situation is,
either if no EU-UK trade & services deal is agreed in time for Brexit,
or if the UK sticks to its FOM & ECJ red lines.

If only there was some sort of European trading bloc we could join.......

Yes, who would ever think we might want a trade deal with our nearest neighbours, all democracies

So much more convenient to trade with tiny theocratic dictatorships the other side of the world,
that take 1% of our exports, instead of the 44% currently with the EU
Much better to be exclusive

Oh, I forgot, dictatorships always want to buy our weapons, our bombers, fighter jets, missiles
We could sell to North Korea, Syria, Iran .....

But àt least we can make our own deals. The Commonwealth must be so excited at the thought of having us back.

Yup the EU have been in favour of Transparency throughout - but only last Autumn David Davis was telling the House of Lords EU select committee.I may ".".not be able to tell you everything, even in private hearings.”

This whole belief that by being secretive you may gain some advantage was always absurd, with something as significant as this.

citroen what I read in that statement from Barnier is that the responsibility of the CONSEQUENCES of leaving the EU are BRITISH.
In effect, DONT try and say it's the EU fault if everything goes per shape because you wanted it.

The commonwealth have jogged on. I think not offering reciprocal FOM or visas does that

Also when the Queen dies it will probably fall apart.

I have to say, I had a little laugh this am when I heard that DD was saying that yes the UK and the EU would negociate the exit frohe EU and then will talk about any possible agreement, not talk about it together.

Then there is the transparency thing.

So we are doing things the way the EU wanted. Surprised anyone?

Choc particularly when the tiny theocratic dictatorships have a tendency towards instability, and depend almost totally on a resource which will run out eventually.

(The definition of eventually depending on demand, price, difficulty of extraction and actual amount of oil in the ground, all of which are variable / unknown.)

Although it's quite possible that the UK will go bust before the oil runs out, depending on decisions in the next 5 to 10 years.

Absolutely agree with that Pink. The UK are cancelling their membership and then saying that the bastards won't let them have the exclusive benefits of membership. They are being punished in fact. I'm just wondering why the EU are punishing so many countries to which they don't extend member's privileges.

Pink Yes I do see.... Barnier very much 'you got yourselves into this mess, don't forget' but it's still hard to take.

Was at thing British Embassy arranged for British citizens in Nl yesterday. Four basic brief points then questions from the floor. Firstly, the Embassy wanted to acknowledge the uncertainty and the hurt caused by Brexit. They feel it too. Secondly that no rights will change. We are still in the EU till 2019. Thirdly to describe the negotiation process (as already posted here). And Fourthly that both the EU and UK were aiming to do their best for all citizens. 'To Find a good solution for everybody'. They wanted to set up a dialogue. So the most obviously question, why on earth didn't this happen before? The UK wouldn't let them.