Westministenders: The bookends to a year of political chaos. Just how far have we come?

[RedToothBrush]

The 15th June 2016.

The Thames was filled with a flotilla of boats in a publicity stunt for the Leave campaign to draw attention to fisheries. Nigel Farage and Kate Hoey in their heads thought they were Leonardo and Kate, but the moment was rather more titanic in nature and could not have been more Alan Partridge if they had tried. Coming up behind was Bob Gedolf in a shameful and cringeworthy display of swearing and abuse that really didn’t help the Remain camp in anyway. Largely unnoticed was a small boat with a family following it all unfold…

The next day things went from fiasco to horror.

Farage unveiled the Dog Whistle Poster and Jo Cox was murdered. And the UK seemed set on its course for 7 days later when the world was turned upside down by the referendum itself.

14th June 2017.

Fast forward 365 days later and another tragedy unfolded. This time of a very different nature but with no less political significance.
Grenfell.

A moment of national shame. A symbol of so many things that had come to pass in the previous twelve months.

The election just the previous week had changed the direction of travel we seemed to be headed and left the Prime Minister exposed and looking wildly out of touch. The Maybot was given one more chance.

And the Maybot seems to be failing the test of her party who had the grace to grant her a second chance.

The Queen dressed in the same shade of blue, May delivered her ‘victory speech’ in, ignored the security threat and visited the ranks of the poor and the forgotten. A deliberate message to May not to forget who she serves? A Queen who feels aggrieved and angry by May’s behaviour? Who knows.

As for Brexit. The government looks lost. Adrift. The ‘Fight of the Summer’ over the EU’s plan for talks sounds out the window despite the denials from the Brexit Department. Hard Brexit is still on the cards. Apparently. But what does anyone believe now? May’s and the Brexiteers domination of the agenda is shattered, its power starting to be questioned.

What next?

This evening the anger is building.

Who knows, what will happen. Some of it might be predictable, but the future is far from certain and we have definitely entered a new era. We just don’t know who will lead it, or what its ambition or what the end goal now is.

What we do know, more acutely than ever is that we are all human and the wise words of Jo Cox about having ‘More in Common’ ring though ever more strongly.

Once again we feel ‘on the brink’.

" Her mum, single parent, minimum wage, zero contract community carer has not been able to put money away to give her that support her dd would need to attend Oxbridge"

It sounds like she would get the maximum amount in university and college bursaries, which is most definitely enough to live on as lots of things (rent, food) are subsidised at Oxford/Cambridge colleges. If she goes to an underperforming school / lives in a relatively deprived area this will be flagged up, and will be taken into account. Good candidates from underperforming schools/ deprived areas have a much greater chance of getting in, they are like gold dust because we know they must have worked much harder to get their grades, and also (more cynically) all the colleges will be trying to meet their access quotas. There is also lots of extra support for emergencies. I would encourage her to apply.

I'm not sure what would help the poor now is to make loads more people poor and have them compete for even more limited services and goods, give them less rights, remove Health and safety standards on housing, etc.

Unless we're playing by apocalypse theory (I've finally started the mandibles lala ). If I can't have it and can't see a way out of it then no one else should have it either. except for the mega rich of course.

Sostenueto if it weren't for Brexit, your gdd could go and study at a university in Germany that is easily the equivalent of RG, with no tuition fees, just a 30 Euro admin fee each year. The course would be taught in English.

But Brexit has robbed our young people of those opportunities...

I bet your GDD is awesome, Sos. Which is another reason I find people harking back to the good old days of the second world war, where people showed more 'grit and determination', quite offensive.

Tatianna look up 1940

Which would you like me to 'look up' bearing in mind my degree is in history? Dunkirk?

The Uk in 1939 was a world superpower, with the vast natural and manpower resources of an empire spanning half the world.
That is why the UK was able to hold out until the US came,.

However, fighting WW2 turned the UK from a superpower to a near bankrupt country, dependent on US Marshall Aid to continue its dreams of imperial grandeur.
We only paid off the last of WW2 debt in 2006.

The shrunken power of the UK now would struggle to hold out against an invasion for more than a few days against say Russia or China
We would be dependent on the US - and Europe, Canada etc - to save us.

Weren't meant to be offensive histinyhandswerefrozen was just a comparison about we seem frightened so much by brexit. I'm not that educated so make allowances for me sometimes using wrong Language.

My late dad fought at Dunkirk and throughout WW2
I know from him how close we came to being conquered - and the huge price paid in lives and centuries of accumulated wealth.

Unfortunately gdds school not on deprived list so that avenue no good for Oxbridge. Trouble is we got to hope on bursaries but we got to find a way if getting gdd enough right social skills to get past interview, she's so leftie too (wonder where she gets that from?). But with determination we will get her there.

I see the financial aspect as a bit like being in a trade union. I pay £20 a month to UNISON and, luckily, have never needed them. A colleague of mine was systematically targeted by a sociopathic boss who, for some reason, took an intense dislike to her and went out of her way to get her sacked by making up downright lies.
Because she was in a union, she had free access to a shit hot lawyer who basically got the case thrown out and supported her in bringing a grievance against her boss for discrimination.
Without that support, she may well have lost her job and found it very hard to get another one. In her case, she recouped her 15 years of £20 pm contributions very quickly and can stay in her job and continue to earn a salary rather than being on benefits so her union membership will save her tens of thousands of £ over her lifetime.

The Uk didn't rush into WW2 out of some ill-judged nostalgia and resentment of immigrants.

That price in lives and treasure - which ended Britain as a world superpower - was only worth paying to prevent being ruled by the Nazis, with our dissidents, our disabled, our Jewish minority murdered in concentration camps

pointythings the problem with going to European universities is that UK students couldn't get a loan for living expenses and any tuition fees to do a degree course outside the UK.

In some countries the student might have been able to get part-time work, but the bulk of the financing would fall on student or his/her family, and have to be paid for from income, savings or a commercial loan.

The other problem is that only some courses were available in English in public universities, i.e. the ones with no or low tuition fees. Otherwise the student would have to study in the language of the country and to gain admission would have to prove ability at B2 level of the European framework.

(We looked into this in detail for DD.)

what I understand when the decision was made to develop us into a service economy but my view was it is not sustainable long term. Yes we purposely stopped investing in infrastructure. We have all our eggs in one basket. And Brexit will smash an awful lot of them.

An example I know a designer who would love to buy UK quality materials. But our industry shut down so has to go to Italy. Whilst some of this has been due to globalisation. The rest as you said has been a wiping away of infrasture and a devaluation of skilled trades

Now we have very few people who could even teach others how to make material. And if we did it would take years. But we need to bring back some of these skills and industries to the UK regardless of Brexit

Yes my dds grandfather won the Croix de guerre (spelling probably wrong) and mentioned in despatches twice during war. Have letters framed.

The EU has nothing to do with poor kids not being able to go to uni
That is entirely due to UK govt policy, to favour tax cuts for the better off over public services and help for the poor.

Most Western European countries have free or very cheap uni education
They chose different priorities when voting.

sos sent you a PM

Thanks ever think you've been conned.x

The decision to move to a service economy was a political one:
to reduce the power of trade unions
to reduce the power of workers to obtain decent wages and working conditions
to increase profits for the wealthy

The UK had far more social inequality than any other comparable European country
That was a political aim
To be like the US in a social Darwinian paradise where the super rich rule because they deserve too and the poor are only poor because of moral failings < that's what they are told, us too now >

Sostenueto "we got to find a way if getting gdd enough right social skills to get past interview, she's so leftie too"

Being lefty will endear her to the majority of academic staff at Oxbridge, most of whom are lefty bordering on marxist! (depending on the subject, probably not for Classics). You don't need specific social skills to get past the interview, the main things are passion for the subject (with some evidence, e.g., love of reading around the subject, etc.), and showing that she is "teachable", e.g., they will give her hints and steer her in the right direction, and want to see if she will take the hints and use them to structure her arguments / amend them once things are pointed out.

It's good to pick the right college, some are more open, diverse, than others. I went to a comprehensive school, my parents had very little money when we were growing up, but I've always felt very welcome in Cambridge. In fact, Cambridge was a lot more welcoming (as a member of staff) than my old RG university (where I studied), which was supposed to be more "working class".

That is why the UK was able to hold out until the US came.
And because the Soviets put up one hell of a fight diverting German resources to the eastern front. Without them it would Man in the High Castle.

BBCSunPolMidlands‏*@sunpoliticsmids*
Ex-Tory candidate for Coventry South @MichelleLowe14 under fire for tweeting Hitler picture. She denies it's an attack on @jeremycorbyn

Michelle Lowe‏**@MichelleLowe14**

(Telegraph paywall) Why Theresa May lost and what the Tories should do next

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/19/theresa-may-lost-tories-should-do-next/

In his earlier quest for majority power, Blair had gambled that he could win over Britain’s urban, young and liberal middle-class while also holding onto Labour’s traditional blue-collar base.
.....
May and her advisers placed a new bet:
that they could simultaneously win over the same patriotic, pro-Brexit workers in Labour areas while retaining the liberal, urban and pro-Remain middle-class.
.....
Here was the hurdle that met the Conservative Party
– while, on average, Labour’s share of the vote increased by 13-points in the most strongly pro-Remain areas,
it also increased by half that much in the most strongly pro-Brexit areas.
.....
Because Labour’s support was not collapsing in Brexit territory this made it all the harder for May to capture the seats that could offset her losses elsewhere.
.....
In the 50 most pro-Remain seats in the country the Conservative Party’s average share of the vote actually fell by 0.13 points while Labour’s surged by nearly 10 points.
.....
Before the election Labour held 46 of the 100 most pro-Brexit seats in the country yet after the election they still held 42 and had only lost four.
.....
the basic structural problem that now confronts both of the main parties.

Brexit has blurred the traditional dividing lines in our politics.

In a country that remains deeply divided on this issue, and where age rather than class has become the main predictor of how people vote,
the simple reality is that it is now far harder for the main parties to build broad and durable electorates.
.....
It is only a matter of time until one or both of these groups comes to the realisation that Corbyn is neither a passionate Remainer nor a genuine Brexiteer who is committed to ending free movement.

But the Conservatives, too, will have to navigate the increasingly rocky road that runs through Brexit Britain.
......
“Conservatives who are debating their future leader may be wise to look beyond the current front bench to find a fresh face,
somebody who is not tainted by the 2016 referendum
and who can soon begin a new conversation with modern Britain.”

Tuition fees can be a saving but English language courses can still be more expensive. Erasmus (14,700 students in 2014/5) is additional financing on top - Labour has specifically said this should stay after Brexit, but the situation re student funding is not the same in every EU Member State. www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/international/studying-overseas/funding-overseas-study/

Ever I don't disagree, I have friends who are in the textile trade still, but focused on good quality wool in imaginative colours and textures that hopefully meet the needs of customers in high end fashion. That is exactly where we can compete, in quality and skil, especially with the branding to go with it. People tend to forget Services in not just banking, it is in other areas of expertise such as marketing and accountancy and management consultancy where we also have a competitive advantage over the rest of the world and have big markets overseas for the service which also enables other UK sectors to compete more effectively but I would say that

Hi sos I've loads of sympathy for your position, but I obviously disagree that the solution is Brexit.

I'm bloody mad at past governments. I think the uk has improved markedly over the past few decades.
But it hasn't improved for everyone. So many people feel utterly let down and left behind. For them the world is changing into something that holds no appeal. And for years and years they've had no voice.

No political party stood up for the left behinders. The establishment was very much pro EU (lots of notable exceptions in the Tory party).

The EU and immigrants have been a scape goat for years. So when people were offered a choice they voted out.
Quite a few people I know said they voted for sovereignty. But couldn't give me one example of a loss of sovereignty that actually bothered them.

After a bit more digging I found out what they were actually voting for...

• there's not enough stuff (jobs, houses, care, schools etc) in the UK. And they thought we need to take care of the people currently here better - before we import any more.

I wouldn't even say they are racist. They are worried about the limited resources of the uk being spread even thinner by more migrants coming in - they aren't all that concerned who the migrants are.

But there was a complete failure to understand migrants bring more to the economy than they take. Most migrants are here doing important work. Britain would (will?) suffer without them.