Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: The bookends to a year of political chaos. Just how far have we come?

992 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/06/2017 18:50

The 15th June 2016.

The Thames was filled with a flotilla of boats in a publicity stunt for the Leave campaign to draw attention to fisheries. Nigel Farage and Kate Hoey in their heads thought they were Leonardo and Kate, but the moment was rather more titanic in nature and could not have been more Alan Partridge if they had tried. Coming up behind was Bob Gedolf in a shameful and cringeworthy display of swearing and abuse that really didn’t help the Remain camp in anyway. Largely unnoticed was a small boat with a family following it all unfold…

The next day things went from fiasco to horror.

Farage unveiled the Dog Whistle Poster and Jo Cox was murdered. And the UK seemed set on its course for 7 days later when the world was turned upside down by the referendum itself.

14th June 2017.

Fast forward 365 days later and another tragedy unfolded. This time of a very different nature but with no less political significance.
Grenfell.

A moment of national shame. A symbol of so many things that had come to pass in the previous twelve months.

The election just the previous week had changed the direction of travel we seemed to be headed and left the Prime Minister exposed and looking wildly out of touch. The Maybot was given one more chance.

And the Maybot seems to be failing the test of her party who had the grace to grant her a second chance.

The Queen dressed in the same shade of blue, May delivered her ‘victory speech’ in, ignored the security threat and visited the ranks of the poor and the forgotten. A deliberate message to May not to forget who she serves? A Queen who feels aggrieved and angry by May’s behaviour? Who knows.

As for Brexit. The government looks lost. Adrift. The ‘Fight of the Summer’ over the EU’s plan for talks sounds out the window despite the denials from the Brexit Department. Hard Brexit is still on the cards. Apparently. But what does anyone believe now? May’s and the Brexiteers domination of the agenda is shattered, its power starting to be questioned.

What next?

This evening the anger is building.

Who knows, what will happen. Some of it might be predictable, but the future is far from certain and we have definitely entered a new era. We just don’t know who will lead it, or what its ambition or what the end goal now is.

What we do know, more acutely than ever is that we are all human and the wise words of Jo Cox about having ‘More in Common’ ring though ever more strongly.

Once again we feel ‘on the brink’.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Valentine2 · 18/06/2017 16:29

"This is a" in my last post.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2017 16:33

I read the manufacturers have said the cladding is not suitable for buildings above a certain height
So, it is certainly not best practice in the industry
I wonder if it it actually contravenes a legal regulation, i.e. with criminal sanctions

If so, then there are questions to be asked:

  • Was the building inspected by safety inspectors - or self-certified, or omitted somehow ? +'if it was inspected, what went wrong ?
BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2017 16:35

Anyone who has ever worked on a large complex project knows it's essential to have one person leading who is able to specify all materials, technology etc

This leading architect explains why this no longer happens in many building projects, how we no longer have the "triple safety lock"

and why Grenfell was avoidable:

https://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2017/jun/17/architects-grenfell-tower-fire-was-an-avoidable-tragedy

citroenpresse · 18/06/2017 16:36

Bigly Not according to www.gov.uk/guidance/grenfell-tower-fire-june-2017-support-for-people-affected

The new £5 million Grenfell Tower Residents’ Discretionary Fund, made immediately available and given to the local authority to distribute – this could be used to cover loss of possessions, funerals and emergency supplies

I'm assuming that is in relation to TM ordering:

"significant central government support to the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea."

Artisanjam · 18/06/2017 16:40

Here's a bit of optimism!!:

Original post by Nick Valentine in The 48%.

Government Health Warning: Following Post May Contain Irony

History might just prove Theresa May to be Britain's cleverest and most underestimated Prime Minister since Neville Chamberlain.
"WHAT???" I hear you cry. "How can this possibly be true, Nicholas?"
Well, bear with me and I'll explain...
Neville was always seen as the pathetic little man with the umbrella who crumbled before Hitler's bullying at Munich and sold the Czechs down the river. But who came away from that summit feeling really angry? Actually, it was Adolf, who felt that crafty Chamberlain had "cheated" him of his rightful war.
Many historians have since concluded that Chamberlain's Munich pact in October 1938 was in fact a masterstoke that gave the RAF a priceless extra year to ready itself and effectively ring-fenced Hitler against further aggression so that he had to go into a long war before Germany had fully re-armed. In short, he saved Britain and eventually Europe.
And Mrs. May? She seems so stupid, doesn't she? After all, when you're confronted with a Brexit that you know from your long years in Government is going to be hideously complex, that is going to require a very careful and consensual approach and a lot of homework to get all the ducks in a row, why choose to handle it the way she did?
She immediately adopted the wrong approach (confrontational and divisive), put the wrong people in the key planning positions, wrong negotiating stance (blustering and threatening) and most important of all, the wrong timing; triggering Article 50 BEFORE she had a secure national mandate.
But suppose - just suppose - there was method in her madness? After all, we know that she is instinctively a Remainer who knows intellectually that Brexit is going to be bad for Britain. And as a lifelong Conservative, she's seen how the Europe issue has been tearing the Tories apart and is now threatening to do the same to the nation.
What if she's concluded that the only way to lance the boil is to engineer a Brexit so disastrous that everyone is forced to conclude that it's just not worth it?
And what better way to do that than approach Brexit exactly as she has, so that Britain crawls into the negotiations as a friendless supplicant, negotiating without a mandate or secure majority, and with very little latitude to walk away from the talks?
Sure, she's sacrificed her own career. But she's also made sure that whoever succeeds her will have no room to do anything except either come back with such a hideous deal that no-one will support it or revoke Article 50 and think again.
Maybe she's thinking more strategically still, seeing that a UK dominated by English nationalists is imperilling Europe's progress and deciding to sacrifice the country to halt the rise of populist parties across the continent. In that latter objective, at any rate, she seems to have been supremely successful. Macron may owe his success to May.

Could this in fact be the ultimate Remainer's Revenge?
Let history decide...

BiglyBadgers · 18/06/2017 16:44

That's interesting Citroen. That page doesn't mention Ealing at all, yet I have seen a number of reports they are dealing with the response now. I wonder what the actual deal is and who is doing what? It just gets more and more confusing.

RedToothBrush · 18/06/2017 16:45

Jessica Elgot‏*@jessicaelgot*

NEW: Jo Swinson not running for Lib Dem leader - meaning it will very likely be all male shortlist, Cable, Lamb, poss Davey as well.
Swinson confirms she'll run for deputy leader, the role that was basically created for her by Farron before he went.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 18/06/2017 16:47

I've heard reports that in order to access money for the Grenfell Residents they are being asked to prove proof that they were residents of the building.

Can anyone spot the problem?

Its amazing isn't it.

OP posts:
BiglyBadgers · 18/06/2017 16:48

Jo Swinson has said she is not running for Lib Dem leader.

BiglyBadgers · 18/06/2017 16:48

Doh, red beat me to it. Grin

citroenpresse · 18/06/2017 16:55

Bigly no reason why Ealing are not involved...seems to be an indication that other local authority resources are (finally) being engaged because blindingly obvious K&C can't cope.

Artisanjam nope. The moment May U-turned on social care...all fell apart. Just another Tory.

LurkingHusband · 18/06/2017 17:03

BiglyBadgers&

cute pic of dogs with little boots Smile

Less cute, and given Mays apparent descent into madness is the Latin for "little boots" is ...

Caligula

(Or is a classical knowledge a bit too metropolitan elite ?)

BiglyBadgers · 18/06/2017 17:12

You are right citron. I investigated further and Ealing have been brought in to offer "humanitarian support", so I think local authority is still overall control. I was getting confused. It is the heat and a troublesome tummy.

Everyone needs a picture of cute dogs in boots occasionally LH. Despite my lefty claims I actually went to a grammer school and studied Latin. Also Classical Civilisation. I have long ago accepted my destiny to be first against the wall when the revolution comes. Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2017 17:19

Sunday Times: "Theresa May has 10 days to save her premiership after she was put on notice to “shape up” and show she is fit to lead."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/tories-tell-may-you-have-10-days-zkszx07r7?CMP=TNLEmail1189188_1969152

"Confidence in the prime minister is in free fall in Tory ranks as
constituency party bosses told ministers and MPs to force her from power.

Up to a dozen MPs are ready to demand a vote of no confidence in May by submitting letters to the backbench 1922 committee.

Their ranks are expected to swell this weekend as MPs consult grassroots grandees about May’s faltering response to the Grenfell Tower inferno"
< they need 48 letters to force her out, but would presumably then want her out before Party conference >

I17neednumbers · 18/06/2017 17:22

Interesting bigchoc, any clues as to who they want instead? It's hard to see who would not divide the party - especially after a 2 -3 month campaign between two contenders.

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 18/06/2017 17:24

I love the little boot/Caligula factoid - I am sure it will crop up on a pub quiz at some stage.

citroenpresse · 18/06/2017 17:26

Bigly Classical education is an option in NL state system. (Private fee-paying education doesn't really exist except for international schools). 6 languages for 3 years (including Latin and Greek) then science/arts split.

RedToothBrush · 18/06/2017 17:39

colinrtalbot.wordpress.com/2017/06/17/why-did-grenfell-happen-its-probably-simple-and-complicated/
Why did Grenfell Happen? It’s probably simple, andcomplicated.

Westministenders: The bookends to a year of political chaos. Just how far have we come?
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 18/06/2017 17:41

Sorry, didn't mean to post the confusing picture with that! Its unconnected.

OP posts:
citroenpresse · 18/06/2017 17:54

Red interesting article but not so sure about

"Local authorities have neither the resources nor expertise to judge things like the safety of materials".

Councils seem to be populated with property developers. They may not be able to personally judge the safety of materials but surely they have a better than average understanding of risks, regulations and market developments.

woman12345 · 18/06/2017 18:10

This may also relate to a greater culture of complacency about fire in general
This seems true, from that article, red:
4 Shock fires a day in schools. Probably all tiny ones, like this one was to start with.
There are more than 1,500 fires in schools and other educational establishments every year
www.abi.org.uk/news/news-articles/2016/08/government-warned-against-abandoning-school-sprinkler-guidance/

LurkingHusband · 18/06/2017 18:15

I love the little boot/Caligula factoid

I'd have to brush up on my Suetonius, but I seem to recall the infant Caligula got his nickname when his father legion won a famous victory - his father being Germanicus, who came to a sticky end (as did all who stood between Livia and her schemes).

Any students of Roman history will probably feel quite at home with the currents of contemporary events.

woman12345 · 18/06/2017 18:21

Not a student of Roman history except through Shakespeare, who was a great story thief/ recycler. Coriolanus: emotionally immature fascist man with mother complex, hello Donald. Julius Caesar: everything happening now in the ukips and tories.

Was Caligula, John Hurt in I Claudius? The one who said." You better not go in there?"

Autobiography of Malcolm X is coming in handy now too. Smile

BiglyBadgers · 18/06/2017 18:23

Oh, now you have made we want to rewatch I Claudius. Grin

JustAnotherPoster00 · 18/06/2017 18:28
Swipe left for the next trending thread