Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2017 22:39

Theresa May has declared war on the EU. She is going to be a ‘bloody difficult woman’ after she got caught out by a highly predictable leak.

Apparently, the EU are trying to rig an election she seems almost dead cert to win. They deliberately timed the leak to interfere with an election May decided the timing of. May was not supposed to be at the dinner, but after she announced the election she decided that she had to get in on the act for some reason. Wildly speculating here, but could this be because she wanted the political mileage herself?

No it wasn't a preplanned strategy. Don't be stupid. That would suggest they had the foggiest clue and a plan. Nope, the war declaration was an opportunist damage limitation exercise, used to maximise political capital.

She has now even further alienated the EU. It seems difficult to conceive how any deal will be done. Instead it looks like the election is trying to set us up to crash out. Whether the ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’ happens to make the 3 page Tory Manifesto remains to be seen.

This would leave EU nationals and British national aboard in legal and social limbo.

There is also a feud building over the Brexit leaving bill, which is steadily climbing. We can not progress to the second stage of Brexit without resolving this. Again, this seems unlikely.

Thirdly, a settlement with Ireland is a top priority for the EU, and plans are being drawn up to make allowances for any potential United Ireland. This is a subject that is still to be talked about on any level really. May has been much more interested in the fate of Scotland and battling with Nicola Sturgeon.

That’s the thing. May is like the playground bully who goes around going “Do you wanna scrap ?, Do ya? DO YA?” and generally throws their weight around and most of the time gets their own way as a result. The trouble with the strategy is when the bigger kid comes along and thumps the bully, for being a cocky little shit and doesn’t like their kid brother getting picked on.

The trouble is that May is setting it up, to try and make it look like the poor little Britain has been picked on to her parents, so they go around accusing the big kid of all sorts rather than admitting their little darling is a nasty little shit.

It’s not going to end well is it? You can’t help but feel that at some point they’ll all end up in the Headmasters office and the WTO/UN/International Courts will rule against us for being a bunch of dickheads. No doubt May, will stick to character, hold a grudge and demand to leave them or say they have no authority over the UK.

That or we really will end up declaring war on Spain over Gibraltar. By accident of course. Probably to keep the ConKip party together and avoid a split.

Rule Britannia. Britannia rules. Erm, not a lot these days.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
Mistigri · 11/05/2017 07:23

The US system is obviously bonkers, but companies in France cope perfectly well with providing mandatory top-up health insurance for employees, and I am sure that similar practices exist in other European countries where social insurance systems do not provide 100% cover.

There is an upfront cost (of selecting a provider) and some admin for new joiners but otherwise it does not appear to be particularly onerous.

Mistigri · 11/05/2017 07:26

hashi 1970s versus the 1950s (or should that be 1850s?). You guys are spoilt for choice Grin

mathanxiety · 11/05/2017 07:29

Yes, you are right, Artisanjam wrt Ulster/Scots Calvinism.

(Love that name of yours).

Motheroffourdragons · 11/05/2017 07:37

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BiglyBadgers · 11/05/2017 07:39

Cailleach1 there was much discussion about the farage visit to Assange on the trump threads some time ago. From memory the visit happened around the same time as Assange had a very cosy little dinner with Trump and then there was a huge leak of intelligence info that helped to distract from Trump's Russia links. Farage is also well known to be a big fan of Russia. He is also an egotistical prat, desperate to pay with the big boys. I would not be surprised in the least if he was used to pass info or messages.

BiglyBadgers · 11/05/2017 07:43

I do wonder if labour are getting more coverage with their manifesto being leaked than they would have done if it had been released in the usual way. Maybe not such a bad thing for them after all.

Mistigri · 11/05/2017 07:52

Mo4D yes - I'm not particularly arguing for insurance-based systems (although social insurance has some benefits I still think the NHS model is overall the most efficient), just pointing out that there are much better arguments against the American system than the burden for companies of organising insurance.

The best argument against americanised healthcare is that it is terribly inefficient - Americans get worse healthcare outcomes at a vastly higher cost.

Motheroffourdragons · 11/05/2017 07:56

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

HashiAsLarry · 11/05/2017 08:04

I do wonder if labour are getting more coverage with their manifesto being leaked than they would have done if it had been released in the usual way. Maybe not such a bad thing for them after all.
The cynic in me would suggest it wasn't a bad move purely to see how people react with a week to tweak things.

misti I seriously doubt the heil even saw the irony. What a choice eh?

Peregrina · 11/05/2017 08:07

What is wrong with the Daily Mail? Leavers want to go back to the time before we were in the EEC/EU - they should be welcoming this with open arms.

woman12345 · 11/05/2017 08:07

I hope this lack of ambition and complete apathy isn't to be found everywhere because it's worrying.

Because class, money, race, gender and contacts trump talent and hard work in Britain now for the lovely young generations, I think you are right Peregrina it is deeply worrying.

The responses on the tory FB page aren't as funny as those on the Patriots Alliance one, but they are even more revealing.

I agree Bigly lots of exposure for labour is something we haven't seen for years. It'll be sobering to know what the majority are rejecting in June.

Motheroffourdragons · 11/05/2017 08:20

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

RedToothBrush · 11/05/2017 08:25

In response to tweet about some photos:

Matt Novak @paleofuture
Photos of Trump meeting with Lavrov and Kislyak just hit the Getty wire and they are all credit to the Russian news agency TASS

The former deputy director of the CIA said this to say on twitter yesterday:

Colin Kahl @ColinKahl
Deadly serious Q: Was it a good idea to let a Russian gov photographer and all their equipment into the oval office?

No. It was no.

Louise Mensch and several others are tweeting that the IC are saying arrests might happen this week yet. The Trump administration is refusing to give documents even over Mike Flynn and are being obstructive over other documents.

Apparently only a quarter of senior republicans have expressed support for Comet's firing.

Out of the blue Senator McCain voted with the democrats and supported an environmental issue yesterday too. Was it something he really believed in more than other issues or was it also a warning that he no longer is prepared to be loyal to the Trump administration?

OP posts:
woman12345 · 11/05/2017 08:29

Funding.

The five donors – including Leave.EU’s Arron Banks, Crystal Palace co-owner Jeremy Hosking, investment billionaire Peter Hargreaves, motoring entrepreneur Robert Edmiston and hedge fund manager Crispin Odey – contributed £14.9m out of the total £24.1m in donations and loans given to the leave campaigns in the five months leading up to the referendum.

According to analysis of the soon-to be published Sunday Times rich list, 71 per cent of funding for campaigns on both sides of the argument came from the UK’s richest people

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-campaign-arron-banks-jeremy-hosking-five-uk-richest-businessmen-peter-hargreaves-a7699046.html

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-donations/details-of-major-campaign-spending-during-eu-referendum-published-by-electoral-commission

And that, in my numerical illiteracy I don't see the Independent's £24.1m Leave donations tally in the Electoral Commission's report.

Nothing to see here, except the above; a few who contributed so much to a decision affecting the many.

woman12345 · 11/05/2017 08:31

The Trump administration is refusing to give documents even over Mike Flynn and are being obstructive over other documents.

Comey had just asked for more funding to look at Russian links?
Russian poop flying fan wards.
Expect a NK whoopsie soon.

Kaija · 11/05/2017 08:33

Mother, it does all sound good. If only Labour hadn't helped the government drive us over the economic cliff of Brexit they might even have been able to achieve some of it.

RedToothBrush · 11/05/2017 08:47

There are also rumours that the deputy attorney general who apparently advised Trump to fire Comedy has privately threatening to quit saying it was a lie.

Then we have this gem:www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/05/10/u-s-to-ban-laptops-in-all-cabins-of-flights-from-europe?source=twitter&via=mobile
U.S. to Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights From Europe, Officials Say

Obviously this will protect the public. Right?

However, this move is increasing fears in the aviation industry that as well as guarding against bombs this ban could actually endanger flights. Laptops and tablets denied access to the cabin and added to checked baggage means that devices with a history of lithium-ion battery fires could set off a deadly conflagration in a cargo hold — where no one can put out the fires.

The FAA recorded 33 incidents in 2016 of personal electronic devices carried into cabins by passengers causing fire emergencies during flights, according to an FAA document reviewed by The Daily Beast. Of these, three were in laptops and two in tablets.

Oh.

So it's bollocks then.

Adrian Bott @ Calavorn
'Labour want to drag us back to the 70s!' whine people who also demand blue passports, imperial weights & measures, & no immigration

Brexit is all about going back to the bloody 70s. Not the real 70s of course - just the faux-nostalgic one.

Neil Monnery @neilmonnery
Just woke up to this. Lib Dems gone from 500/1 to 66/1 and now 14/1 in Kensington. Still long shots but quite the betting move #GE2017

The LDs came third here with 2000 votes to Cons with 18000 and Labour with 11000 in 2015.

Those odds therefore are very weird.

Someone heard the rumour that the Tories are a lot more worried about a number of London seats than they are letting on then? Or someone dumped a lot of money on them for some reason (not unheard of to try and influence voting - this could equally be to motivate Con or LD vote in theory)

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 11/05/2017 08:53

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

RedToothBrush · 11/05/2017 09:01

Karl Sharron @ karlremarks
The Tories want to take Britain back to the 50s, Labour wants to take it back to the 70s, and the Lib-Dems back to June 2016.

Scandifriend @scandifriend
UKIP want to take it back to about 3400 BC so they win on the retro metric

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 11/05/2017 09:21

www.byline.com/column/67/article/1643
LESOTHO: LEAVE.EU’S DIAMOND IN THE ROUGH

Banks sources his gems from a series of mines he owns in South Africa, under the company name Kophia Diamonds, and is listed as a director alongside Jonathan Ian Banks and James Pryor.

Jonathan has a law firm registered to Banks’ primary offices in Bristol, and Pryor – ex-UKIP and Maggie Thatcher communications guru – is linked to another Banks connected company, Chartwell Political.

And

Wigmore, along with both Arron and Jonathan Banks, and James Pryor are pictured with the King of Lesotho on the 11th of June 2014 during an apparent trip to visit their mining facilities.

In general Banks doesn't go there. Instead

Banks, in his autobiography, describes Pryor as his "fixer in Africa" and states that both Pryor and Wigmore worked together for the conservatives in the late 1980s. Banks goes on to say that he bought two mines in Lesotho, visits them periodically, but Pryor is there most of the time to keep him updated.

And

On the Chartwell website, Pryor lists his previous experience as including assistance to the Basothu National Party in Lesotho, though it is not clear in which election.

These guys are nationalists with a nasty track record. Article talks about how shit hot at abusing human rights they were.

Then it says:

The BNP’s history is colourful, fractious, and deeply tied to Russia.

Ok you got my interest now.

The Russian embassy in Maseru was closed in August 1992 and the Russian Ambassador to South Africa has been allocated to Lesotho since. The two countries have maintained a history of bilateral agreement, however – predominantly with Russia providing scholarships, including to senior government officials.

In the summer of 2014, around the time of Banks’ group meeting with the king, Russia began to deliver humanitarian aid to Lesotho.

Read the full thing.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 11/05/2017 09:29

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c2f61ea2-35c1-11e7-a950-1fd679d420f6
PM drops business letter of support

Theresa May will not seek the endorsement of prominent business figures in the campaign, amid jitters about relations with her government.

The prime minister has abandoned the practice used by Tony Blair and David Cameron of harvesting the names of business supporters and publishing them in a letter.

These letters were used in the 2010 and 2015 general election campaigns as well as the 2016 EU referendum.

“Fiona hates letters,” said one senior Tory source, referring to Fiona Hill, the prime minister’s joint chief of staff.

Sir Lynton Crosby, one of the senior campaign advisers, has said that the party will be better placed to pick up former Labour voters if it doesn’t appear as close to big business as Mr Cameron.

Which is it? Lack of support from business or election strategy?

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 11/05/2017 09:35

Also in today's Times and in no way is there a possible connection between the previous story and this one

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1d07ddf2-35c4-11e7-a950-1fd679d420f6
Cracks widen between chancellor and No 10
New row follows spat over national insurance

Relations between the chancellor and Theresa May’s top team have deteriorated following a series of clashes over policy and presentation.

Philip Hammond infuriated senior Downing Street aides by effectively committing the prime minister to ditching a promise not to raise VAT, tax or national insurance days after she called the election and before the policy had been settled, The Times has learnt.

Yesterday, both sides denied reports that Mr Hammond had initially opposed Mrs May’s promise to cap energy bills for 17 million households as they sought to present a united front before the launch next week of the Conservative manifesto.

However, the relationship between the chancellor and No 10 — in particular Nick Timothy, one of Mrs May’s chiefs of staff — is understood to have…

It then cuts off by the pay wall.

I note in both stories the mention of Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill being very prominent.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 11/05/2017 09:40

www.cer.org.uk/node/5990/view-email
Checks on prime ministerial power are weak in Britain – and Theresa May’s massive parliamentary majority after the general election will weaken them further. In the context of Brexit, this is dangerous.

The article refers to “Elective dictatorships”

OP posts:
woman12345 · 11/05/2017 09:43

Read the full thing done.Shock

Can we start a 'Coup Corner' sub section?

Hammond's the lynch pin here, isn't he. Impossible job I imagine. Still Nick Timothy looks like an easy bloke to get on with. Hmm

Kaija · 11/05/2017 09:47

Lesotho stuff very interesting and grim. The inevitable link from Russia to Brexit is starting to look a little clearer.

Woild anyone feel like looking at JJ Patrick's Twitter thread on UKIP/Russia from yesterday and posting it here? (Am on phone and just about to arrive at work)