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Brexit

Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2017 22:39

Theresa May has declared war on the EU. She is going to be a ‘bloody difficult woman’ after she got caught out by a highly predictable leak.

Apparently, the EU are trying to rig an election she seems almost dead cert to win. They deliberately timed the leak to interfere with an election May decided the timing of. May was not supposed to be at the dinner, but after she announced the election she decided that she had to get in on the act for some reason. Wildly speculating here, but could this be because she wanted the political mileage herself?

No it wasn't a preplanned strategy. Don't be stupid. That would suggest they had the foggiest clue and a plan. Nope, the war declaration was an opportunist damage limitation exercise, used to maximise political capital.

She has now even further alienated the EU. It seems difficult to conceive how any deal will be done. Instead it looks like the election is trying to set us up to crash out. Whether the ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’ happens to make the 3 page Tory Manifesto remains to be seen.

This would leave EU nationals and British national aboard in legal and social limbo.

There is also a feud building over the Brexit leaving bill, which is steadily climbing. We can not progress to the second stage of Brexit without resolving this. Again, this seems unlikely.

Thirdly, a settlement with Ireland is a top priority for the EU, and plans are being drawn up to make allowances for any potential United Ireland. This is a subject that is still to be talked about on any level really. May has been much more interested in the fate of Scotland and battling with Nicola Sturgeon.

That’s the thing. May is like the playground bully who goes around going “Do you wanna scrap ?, Do ya? DO YA?” and generally throws their weight around and most of the time gets their own way as a result. The trouble with the strategy is when the bigger kid comes along and thumps the bully, for being a cocky little shit and doesn’t like their kid brother getting picked on.

The trouble is that May is setting it up, to try and make it look like the poor little Britain has been picked on to her parents, so they go around accusing the big kid of all sorts rather than admitting their little darling is a nasty little shit.

It’s not going to end well is it? You can’t help but feel that at some point they’ll all end up in the Headmasters office and the WTO/UN/International Courts will rule against us for being a bunch of dickheads. No doubt May, will stick to character, hold a grudge and demand to leave them or say they have no authority over the UK.

That or we really will end up declaring war on Spain over Gibraltar. By accident of course. Probably to keep the ConKip party together and avoid a split.

Rule Britannia. Britannia rules. Erm, not a lot these days.

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twofingerstoEverything · 10/05/2017 11:32

Kent. Hmmm. Do we want to guess where that might refer to?

Oooh... could it be Thanet by any chance?

woman12345 · 10/05/2017 11:32

^McLoughlin claims the allegations about Tory election over-spending in 2015 were “politically motivated”.

He says the Tories are “pleased” the CPS is not pressing charges. Candidates have been vindicated, he says. They “did nothing wrong”.

He says people spreading allegations on the internet could be breaking electoral law and committing libel^

No comment.

lalalonglegs · 10/05/2017 11:33

Michael Crick must be apoplectic. No doubt the whole enquiry will be spun into an "enemies of the state" trying to "undermine the legitimate government" - it beggars belief the way in which those with the most privilege and power continually portray themselves as victims Hmm.

Peregrina · 10/05/2017 11:33

Why are we not surprised that there are no charges?
The only thing is, the Tories won't be able to pull that stunt again.
It may be wishful thinking on my behalf, but this cult of May is dangerous for the Tories - when they stab her in the back, which they will do sooner or later, a power vacuum will open up, as it did after Thatcher.

lalalonglegs · 10/05/2017 11:34

Ha ha - I x-posted with woman. So predictable.

squoosh · 10/05/2017 11:35

He says people spreading allegations on the internet could be breaking electoral law and committing libel

Well nothing happens to people who break electoral law...

Peregrina · 10/05/2017 11:37

Candidates have been vindicated, he says. They “did nothing wrong”.
I suspect that individual candidates weren't the ones primarily responsible. It would beggar belief to think that 30 candidates all made the same mistake. The responsibility must lie centrally. They got away with it in 2010 on a small scale, and so tried it out again.

whatwouldrondo · 10/05/2017 11:37

The Greens are standing aside for the Libdems in Richmond and Twickenham. In spite of Tory gossip whatever Labour were talking to Vince Cable about if they were at all it wasn't standing aside, they are fielding a candidate in Twickenham who does not even live in the constituency and is a Councillor in a neighbouring borough, which will water down further an already small percentage of the vote. There are Labour Councillors in the borough who would have been much more popular choices, but then they are centrists, Labour certainly move in mysterious ways these days....

woman12345 · 10/05/2017 11:41

@MichaelLCrick 21m
Karl McCartney, on behalf of Tory MPs concerned, calls on bosses of Electoral Commission to resign, & threatens campaign to abolish Comm

prettybird · 10/05/2017 11:42

"Candidates have been vindicated, he says. They “did nothing wrong”.

Pedantic, but isn't the conclusion of the CPS that there is not diffident proof that they knew what was being done was wrong? Hmm ie it's the "mens rea" argument.

Not that "they didn't do anything wrong" ConfusedAngry They did (as confirmed by the Electoral Commission fines) - but HQ was very clever in keeping them at one step removed.

So who are the real enemies of a functioning and fair democracy? Angry

whatwouldrondo · 10/05/2017 11:44

Those battle buses were sources of multiple scandals, including bullying. It was all a bit Flashman but nothing sticks to Teflon Theresa. Perhaps the CPS had one eye on what happened to Yates and Comey and can see the writing on the wall as far as life in Theresa's Trumpdom is concerned....

woman12345 · 10/05/2017 11:47

Funny old morning this one, what with old Comey and this one. Funny old morning it feels choreographed. The Macron win must have really annoyed them and that the EU isn't going anywhere.

Shame, I always felt safe in a democracy. Memories.

I read it as mens rea or reckless liability in that FT article Prettybird but it is what it is.

woman12345 · 10/05/2017 11:54

William Wragg, who is seeking re-election as Conservative MP for Hazel Grove and who, like Karl McCartney (see 11.43am), was one of the Tories being investigated, has put out this statement about the CPS decision.

I welcome this decision by the CPS today. I am pleased the matter is now resolved, and that after a very thorough investigation of over a year, the authorities have confirmed what I knew was the case all along, that I’ve done nothing wrong and acted with integrity and honesty ...

When we look across the world, however, we should be glad that we live in a country where democracy and fairness in elections are held in such high regard that full investigation and attention is given to maintaining the fairness of our system. I do not begrudge the attention that the police and CPS have given to this case, and I maintain my respect and support for our police and justice system in the essential and difficult tasks which they conduct every day.

prettybird · 10/05/2017 11:55

Woman - I actually agree with you: I think there was "mens rea". A lawyer friend described it to me as including "what a responsible person would think the consequence would be". To me, that means candidates ought to have considered or it should have at least crossed their minds to wonder/ask who was funding the big battle bus and/or activists being shipped in from elsewhere I'm looking at you David Mundell - but evidently (Wink) the CPS didn't. HmmConfusedAngry

woman12345 · 10/05/2017 11:56

Elitist lawyers prettybird
First they came for Crick, and a I did not speak out because I was not a Crick etc

prettybird · 10/05/2017 12:34

This seems the appropriate time to repost this......Wink

Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently
RedToothBrush · 10/05/2017 12:34

It is legally ok to say that the Conservatives broke Electoral Law.

They were found guilty and were fined.

The CPS merely couldn't tell whether this was deliberate or accidental.

It doesn't change the point that it happened.

To now call for the abolition of the Electoral Commission says a lot about attitudes to democracy.

They could well use this against the Electoral Commission in the long run. In enforcing the rules and trying to protect democracy, democracy could be at risk.

I'm not expecting anymore good news for a very long time now. Time to start digging in for the long haul and be resolute in determination.

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HashiAsLarry · 10/05/2017 13:03

I could quite imagine there are plenty of MPs who personally have no clue about their election expenses. They have people for that.

But the Tories as a whole did commit election fraud and have accepted a fine for it. Which means whilst MPs themselves are vindicated, there's backroom staff knowing precisely what they did.

As it only costs £70k to win an election fraudulently, shall we start a fundraising bid? I am kidding btw just in case someone takes that the wrong way

Artisanjam · 10/05/2017 13:59

Article about the immigration figures and that net migration target:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/08/may-could-meet-net-migration-target-by-crashing-the-economy

It says something, doesn't it, when fear of giving UKIP and the Fail a reason to whine is to be avoided more than a total economic crash.

Motheroffourdragons · 10/05/2017 14:48

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prettybird · 10/05/2017 15:03

The other way she can meet it (although its net effect will only work for the 3/4 years of a degree) is by making the UK so unattractive to students that they'll no longer choose to come to the UK.

Who cares about our FE and HE institutions? Hmm May certainly doesn't

Cailleach1 · 10/05/2017 15:03

Jeepers, balanced programme of Daily Politics with Michael Gove And Paul Nuttall. What a treat! Andrew Neil has just spent spent a while shouting at Jack Dromey. He will do himself a mischief shouting at people he doesn't like personally.

I thought the Christian Peoples Alliance fellow (twitter 300 odd following) was put on, effectively, as a punching bag yesterday. Would I agree with him? No. However, Owen Jones got to call him out everything under the sun and he wasn't allowed to go respond. I think he should have been allowed to respond. Now I went more a little off him when he started going 'fake news' with frustration.

Why don't they ever put someone from the DUP on with someone who will challenge them on misusing their actual political power to prevent a right to gay marriage in NI. When they had enough numbers to use their 'petition of concern', to block gay marriage agains a majority vote for it, they did. A very real exercise of their beliefs to deny others equal rights, even though there was a majority vote in the assembly for it. So even if somebody voted for what they believed in, it was an abuse to use the 'petition of concern' to block it when a majority voted for it.

"But the motion has been blocked after the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) deployed a petition of concern that required the proposal to achieve a cross-community majority.
While 41 nationalists backed the proposal, it was approved by only four unionists, meaning it could not pass."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-34692546

Same with poor Tim Farron being hounded about what he thinks about gay sex. And there are the DUP smirking away behind him. Unquestioned in their repressive actions, while Farron is hounded.

It just ain't fair.

Kaija · 10/05/2017 15:16

"The other way she can meet it (although its net effect will only work for the 3/4 years of a degree) is by making the UK so unattractive to students that they'll no longer choose to come to the UK. "

It's happening already. Just heard today that one of the London art colleges is having to make redundancies because of the fall in applications from EU students for September.

Motheroffourdragons · 10/05/2017 15:32

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

RedToothBrush · 10/05/2017 16:44

www.politico.eu/article/theresa-may-appoints-ex-eu-official-as-top-aide/
Theresa May appoints ex-EU official as top aide

Theresa May has appointed a former European Commission official and trade expert who worked under Peter Mandelson in Brussels as her most senior civil servant inside Number 10.

Peter Hill, who worked in Mandelson’s cabinet when he was European trade commissioner, will become May’s principal private secretary in Downing Street, having served as director of strategy at the Foreign Office since 2013, the prime minister’s official spokesman toldPOLITICO

and

Hill’s appointment adds a wealth of Brusselsknowledgeto May’s top team. He is one of the few people in the top ranks of British government with experience of trade negotiations, and his appointment will reassure critics of the government’s hard Brexit stance, who have been alarmed at the increasingly belligerent anti-Brussels rhetoric emanating from No.10 in recent days.

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