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Brexit

Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2017 22:39

Theresa May has declared war on the EU. She is going to be a ‘bloody difficult woman’ after she got caught out by a highly predictable leak.

Apparently, the EU are trying to rig an election she seems almost dead cert to win. They deliberately timed the leak to interfere with an election May decided the timing of. May was not supposed to be at the dinner, but after she announced the election she decided that she had to get in on the act for some reason. Wildly speculating here, but could this be because she wanted the political mileage herself?

No it wasn't a preplanned strategy. Don't be stupid. That would suggest they had the foggiest clue and a plan. Nope, the war declaration was an opportunist damage limitation exercise, used to maximise political capital.

She has now even further alienated the EU. It seems difficult to conceive how any deal will be done. Instead it looks like the election is trying to set us up to crash out. Whether the ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’ happens to make the 3 page Tory Manifesto remains to be seen.

This would leave EU nationals and British national aboard in legal and social limbo.

There is also a feud building over the Brexit leaving bill, which is steadily climbing. We can not progress to the second stage of Brexit without resolving this. Again, this seems unlikely.

Thirdly, a settlement with Ireland is a top priority for the EU, and plans are being drawn up to make allowances for any potential United Ireland. This is a subject that is still to be talked about on any level really. May has been much more interested in the fate of Scotland and battling with Nicola Sturgeon.

That’s the thing. May is like the playground bully who goes around going “Do you wanna scrap ?, Do ya? DO YA?” and generally throws their weight around and most of the time gets their own way as a result. The trouble with the strategy is when the bigger kid comes along and thumps the bully, for being a cocky little shit and doesn’t like their kid brother getting picked on.

The trouble is that May is setting it up, to try and make it look like the poor little Britain has been picked on to her parents, so they go around accusing the big kid of all sorts rather than admitting their little darling is a nasty little shit.

It’s not going to end well is it? You can’t help but feel that at some point they’ll all end up in the Headmasters office and the WTO/UN/International Courts will rule against us for being a bunch of dickheads. No doubt May, will stick to character, hold a grudge and demand to leave them or say they have no authority over the UK.

That or we really will end up declaring war on Spain over Gibraltar. By accident of course. Probably to keep the ConKip party together and avoid a split.

Rule Britannia. Britannia rules. Erm, not a lot these days.

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Motheroffourdragons · 10/05/2017 07:42

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woman12345 · 10/05/2017 07:58

The 48% ( of which there are two Hertfordshire groups, NE and SW) are going after that seat.

No they're not, Blush sorry, it's Buckingham. But obviously a lib dem challenge to Bercow and being followed closely on local 48% FB/ Lib Dems.

Very torykip/ EDL area

order-order.com/2017/04/24/libdems-challenging-bercow-labour-step-aside/

HPFA · 10/05/2017 08:36

Yes I guess so, fox hunting is such a non event though, surely. In current times.

It's something a lot of people feel strongly about though. And it shows how TM is presenting the election as if it was solely about Brexit negotiations but will use the majority as an excuse to do things that she would otherwise not dare to try and push through.

As I say, a competent opposition could do a lot with this. If only........

Kaija · 10/05/2017 08:42

I'm assuming the fox hunting thing has been calculated to win a particular set of votes somewhere. South West? As well as being meat thrown to the frothing right in the party.

woman12345 · 10/05/2017 08:50

calculated to win a particular set of votes

Or to goad/provoke hunt sabateurs and animal rights activists, who could be branded terrorists in UK, and are in the US.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fox-hunting-balaclava-clad-terrorists-saviours-britain-wildlife-truth-

com/us-news/2015/feb/19/animal-rights-activists-challenge-federal-terrorism-charges

Expect some stories in the heil about foxes terrorising brexit bunnies this week.

RedToothBrush · 10/05/2017 09:14

It's been suggested it's a bone being thrown to the right so she can then water down brexity things. Except of course it's not. I'd follow the money to work out why it's back on the agenda.

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Motheroffourdragons · 10/05/2017 09:18

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RedToothBrush · 10/05/2017 09:20

The ECJ has ruled that the non-EU parent of minor EU citizen may rely on derived right to reside in EU.

Potentially important for British nationals. Will be interesting to see if we offer equivalent to EU citizens married to Brits here.

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SapphireStrange · 10/05/2017 09:20

Red, I think it's a dead-cat throw to distract from the electoral fraud report. Is that what you meant too?

RedToothBrush · 10/05/2017 09:22

That hadn't crossed my mind to be honest but yes. Likely.

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Kaija · 10/05/2017 09:25

Yes. Something colourful to fill up the front pages.

whatwouldrondo · 10/05/2017 09:27

fox hunting is such a non event Actually it is a non event in policing but not in political terms. Fox hunting has gone on as before in many areas (not sure if all, I think some of the really prominent elite hunts like the Beaufort had to switch to drag hunting for a while at least) because the Police decided that they are not in the business of making the people involved in a traditional country pursuit a priority for the use of resources in their crime fighting strategies. In many areas of the country the hunts aren't full of toffs and nouveau riche but rather people who genuinely love horses. There are rural areas, especially in the north and west where owning a horse is very common and not particularly a sign of wealth, or being elite.

However it is hugely emotive and has political capital which is why it was banned in theory in the first place. I can't imagine that it will win May any votes, but then she doesn't need them, but it will be hugely symbolic for those Tories who live in constituencies where you could put a blue rosette on a horse or fox and get a huge majority. It is cheer leading division again..,...

Disclaimer : No fan of fox hunting just aware the stereotype is a little awry of the reality.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2017 09:30

The point about Nixon is that the US system of checks & balances worked brilliantly then - look back and see what has been lost.
The US had a crooked president who created the "Plumbers" to spy on his opponents and sabotage them.
In those days, Nixon was thought to be the worst thing ever.
He seems quite banal now.

The legal system worked:
the resignations of the Attorney General and deputy (both Republicans)
the judges hearing cases as things came to light, being brave and active.

There was a wide range of active media sources
The press investigated - many papers weren't interested, but they weren't persecuted.
Nixon hadn't that power

The public was outraged, because they demanded better in those days

It took several revelations before a significant number of Republicans turned against Nixon, but they did so when public outrage spiked - they feared for their seats

Now, the resistance is feeble:
the liberal press intimidated
the far right Breitbart and Fox news dominant, feeding Trump's power
the judiciary largely replaced by authoritarian fans
the Congress dominated by the Republican extreme right - by gerrymandering in the case of the House of Reps

the public is ground down or even in favour of Trump's authoritarian kleptocracy

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2017 09:32

Depressing, but fox hunts - the thought of cute furry animals in danger - are more likely to spark public opposition than cuts to services for the disabled.
Even cuts to schools and the nhs, which most people use

RedToothBrush · 10/05/2017 09:40

Jim Waterson @ Jimwaterson
I'm not sure contempt of court laws were designed to withstand Twitter during an election period if there's charges in #ToryElectionFraud

Good point this. Might be worth being cautious with what you say here if charges are brought. (But as I say don't hold your breathe and this point suggests the idea of the inability to have a fair trial could be used as a defence anyway)

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BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2017 09:40

To cheer everyone up:

Later this year, we can follow the German elections, which will be all about a moderate conservative and a moderate socialist - with some radical ideas - both of whom are totally pro-EU and pro civilized democratic politics.
Smile
One of them will be Chancellor, leading a coalition of parties representing over 50% of voters
The hard right will not get even a sniff of power

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2017 09:44

In the Tinternet social media age, all UK court restrictions are pretty powerless if there is sufficient interest -
whether that restriction is about the evidence, anonymity for victims or witnesses, new identities for former young criminals (e.g Venables etc) ....
Anyone abroad - or with a modified BPN - can and will ignore UK court orders.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2017 09:45

VPN

whatwouldrondo · 10/05/2017 09:59

Speaking of horses, or rather flogging dead ones, woman whilst a bit of Chukka is always welcome it is a bit depressing isn't it? No sign of going out to find a new progressive centre to rescue us on a white charger from the next few years of unopposed Theresa Trumpdom when there are absolutely no signs of life in the one in the Labour Party........

HPFA · 10/05/2017 10:24

Meanwhile in Ireland support for the EU is pretty high:

www.europeanmovement.ie/em-irelandred-c-poll-2017-irelands-commitment-to-eu-membership-undiminished-by-brexit/

which may have something to do with this:

www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0509/873770-significant-interest-from-uk-firms-seeking-irish-move/

I believe that support for the EU is now rising across Europe although haven't had time to search for the link. It appears that those who told us the EU was about to crumble were a little wide of the mark.

Motheroffourdragons · 10/05/2017 10:44

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Motheroffourdragons · 10/05/2017 10:50

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RedToothBrush · 10/05/2017 10:59

Breaking: CPS - No charges to be brought

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RedToothBrush · 10/05/2017 11:11

Channel 4 News‏*@Channel4News*
The CPS has said one file from Kent Police "remains under consideration". #electionexpenses

Kent. Hmmm. Do we want to guess where that might refer to?

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Eeeeeowwwfftz · 10/05/2017 11:12

That's another 10% on the Tory lead then.

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