How can anyone defend TM right now?

[Bearbehind]

And I ask that as a life long Tory voter

• She repeatedly, categorically ruled out having a GE now, then completely u-turned
• she is too spineless to participate in tv debates
• she won't deny triple lock pensions will be scrapped
• she won't deny the freeze on tax hikes will be scrapped
• her 'red line' is immigration, which if you ask most Leavers, wasn't their 'red line'
• she is hell bent on screwing the economy to prove a point
• her Brexit team cannot answer even the most basic questions
• she showed her petticoat to Trump and even he has said the EU will come first
• she is operating under some kind of delusion that EU agencies can remain in what will be a non EU country.

Really, who in their right mind would vote for her?

Life long labour voters who are considering now voting Tory blow my mind.

Seriously, what was ever so bad about the EU that makes it worth all this?

fakename yep, apparently a no of companies/orgs had been briefed pre David Davis meetings not to mention the negatives

I will try and dig out the links today - although this recent one from the FT seems to say they can (now) mention regulatory challenges in meetings with TM and team:

www.ft.com/content/a1d65e82-1ac1-11e7-bcac-6d03d067f81f

“What really gets you a good hearing is if you come in and say that you see opportunities around Brexit and come up with solutions to any problems,” said one corporate adviser

Meanwhile, business lobbies seeking to influence Downing Street would be wise to tread a careful line, expressing their concerns only in private meetings rather than through public campaigns.

Officials have made clear that any critical statements in the media about immigration, trade, or the rights of EU residents will be punished with an immediate cessation of access, according to one big business lobby.

fakename - I'm afraid so. The FT reported on it earlier this month

Theresa May ensures only Brexit key allows entry to No 10

“What really gets you a good hearing is if you come in and say that you see opportunities around Brexit and come up with solutions to any problems,” said one corporate adviser.

... Officials have made clear that any critical statements in the media about immigration, trade, or the rights of EU residents will be punished with an immediate cessation of access, according to one big business lobby.

Anlaf - I listened to that programme when it was first broadcast and thought it was excellent and made so many good points that the government couldn't possibly pursue Brexit having heard all of O'Donnell's (and others') perfectly understandable misgivings...

Oops, I see Anlaf got there first

I don't get this obsession some Leavers have with getting Remainers to shut up. I'm sure none of them would shut up if the government was hell bent on pushing through something that they believed would be catastrophic and that only a small majority had voted for.

[cont] these might do for now- on mandatory positivity in meetings with David Davis and other ministers:

From the very sobering, excellent, Ian Dunt's Brexit What the hell happens now
A political culture has taken hold where baseless optimism is prized over sobriety. Trade association bosses going to visit David Davis in the summer were first ushered into a room by civil servants. There, they were briefed that they needed to go into the meeting saying that they were very excited by the possibilities of Brexit. Anyone who felt differently tended to be asked to leave in the first five minutes. Now the Brexit ball of fuzzy mandate and heated emotion is about to crash headfirst into an immovable object: European bureaucracy. Welcome to Article 50.

And from last month
www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/britain-eu-banks/
A series of other meetings between bankers and government ministers have also ended badly, Reuters has learned.

Bankers say May’s ministers don’t understand the industry and what is at stake, and don’t want to hear negative news about Brexit. “We have entered a period of severe danger,” said a Wall Street executive who runs the European operations of a global investment bank. “Parts of the government are being way too complacent.”

“What really gets you a good hearing is if you come in and say that you see opportunities around Brexit and come up with solutions to any problems,” said one corporate adviser

They don't get a hearing, but continue to make plans to walk away from the UK, and May and her stooges don't get to hear this. So they don't get the chance to offer those firms an alternative. Not that they are very good at formulating plans.

lala Ha ha!

Terrifying innit?

I am listening agin to GO'D's thing and it is just.... 8 months on from broadcast and the government is Failing to Meet Requirements on pretty much everything suggested. It's making me a bit weepy at the opportunities lost.

But yes, vote conservative! [I say that as someone who happily would if they weren't behaving like incompetent....runs out of swearywords]

Well this will be interesting

Tusk has said 'people, money and Ireland' must be resolved before trade talks commence.

The easy things then!

If it weren't so serious it would be hysterical- the EU are doing a cracking job of putting us in our place.

May has already whined about the 27 being against us. What did she expect?

We (UK) have whined and whined for special terms for so long, and assumed that they would always be ours for the taking. In the end the other side has snapped and said politely, 'Good Riddance'.

How's things going with bestie mates Trump and Erdogan? I haven't heard May say much about them recently.

This is a General Election, Surfer. It is not an EU referendum: we had that last year.

I was talking to a friend this morning who voted Conservative in the last election. She's decided she is voting Lib Dem this time - not because of Brexit but because she is disgusted with what this government have done to education, health, the disabled and social care.

I think this election has a lot less to do with Brexit than the fact that 30 senior Tories are facing trial for financial irregularities and may well lose their seats/end up in prison if found guilty.

I cant think of another reason for her Damascene moment on her holiday walk.

endofthelinefinally agree with what you said.
MirabelleTree and what your friend said. This thread where people are listing cuts to local schools's budgets, while grammar schools are being funded.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/2914506-Do-you-know-how-much-your-childs-school-budget-will-be-cut-Use-the-link-and-post-the-answer-here

Fuck - I've just used that link, woman, and my daughter's secondary school is losing £850k, equivalent of 19 teachers. No wonder they've had to cut the school day by an hour .

More on school funding:
www.theguardian.com/education/datablog/2017/apr/28/a-third-of-schools-in-england-are-underfunded-by-more-than-1m

Peregrina,

'EU are doing a cracking job of putting us in our place'.

I think this tells us all your agenda here.

Would you care to attribute your criticism to the right person larrygrylls?

larry if you're gong to quote people, at least get the right person.

And anyway, regardless whether it was peregrina or me who said that- neither of us have ever hidden our feelings- why does that mean we have an 'agenda'

Since you're back- What are your thoughts on the question I asked before you disappeared?

Or on today's GDP figures?

X post peregrina

This is a General Election, Surfer. It is not an EU referendum: we had that last year

Hahaha, yeah right.

.....but us 'thickos' don't know what's good for us do we, so now TM is giving the intellectuals a chance to vote for anti Brexit MP's.
You should be over the moon about this election because it is all about Brexit - use your vote tactically and get the liberals some power. I personally wouldn't trust the libdems as far as I could throw them - teaming up with the Tories just to get a bit of power? Unforgivable in my book. & now they're viciously targeting a female Labour MP - but remainers don't care as long as us oiks are put back in our place.

Just to get a bit of power? I don't expect a political party that I have voted for to behave like blushing virgins if the option to actually take part in government comes up. Yes the lib Dems at the top were phenomenally naive - those who have scrapped through a few terms in local government should have been listened to.

Apologies Peregrina, genuine mistake.

Bear,

Most people, regardless of whether they are 'leavers' or 'remainers' want the best for the UK. Your comments suggest that you want us 'to be put in our place'. It kind of suggests you care little for the UK.

Quite the opposite larry

I want people to realise we're not the special snowflakes some think we are and stop this car crash before it's too late.

The EU making it abundantly clear we're not going to get everything we want is good news because it might make people stop and think.

Any update on those questions?

This vicious targeting you speak of surfer, is that this female Labour MP? Whose constituents are reckoned to have the highest remain vote aside from gibraltar? Who went round the country with Paul Nuttall and Farage (and others) on a 'We Want Our Country Back' tour?

Genuinely, what is the vicious bit? LDs seem to be reminding her constituents that she's refused to represent their views on Brexit.

Even Paul Mason doesn't seem to want to vote for her. blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/watch-paul-mason-expresses-doubts-voting-labour/

Apologies if this is not the MP you're thinking of.

(incidentally, if you are an oik, then I am almost certainly oikier. I am a positive hick )