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Brexit
Original poster

How can anyone defend TM right now?

402 replies

Bearbehind · 22/04/2017 19:40

And I ask that as a life long Tory voter

  • She repeatedly, categorically ruled out having a GE now, then completely u-turned
  • she is too spineless to participate in tv debates
  • she won't deny triple lock pensions will be scrapped
  • she won't deny the freeze on tax hikes will be scrapped
  • her 'red line' is immigration, which if you ask most Leavers, wasn't their 'red line'
  • she is hell bent on screwing the economy to prove a point
  • her Brexit team cannot answer even the most basic questions
  • she showed her petticoat to Trump and even he has said the EU will come first
  • she is operating under some kind of delusion that EU agencies can remain in what will be a non EU country.

Really, who in their right mind would vote for her?

Life long labour voters who are considering now voting Tory blow my mind.

Seriously, what was ever so bad about the EU that makes it worth all this?

OP posts:
Redactio · 28/04/2017 20:31

OP, if you actually believe half of what you posted, I doubt that you have ever voted Conservative.

Peregrina · 28/04/2017 20:33

I can't see why OP couldn't have voted Conservative once - many are now horrified at the lurch to the extreme right the party has taken.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 28/04/2017 20:38

Why do you say that redactio

I assure you I've been a Tory voter for more than 20 years.

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Peregrina · 28/04/2017 21:09

The fact that question whether Bearbehind was ever a Tory voter shows just how far to the right a once IMO perfectly respectable party has gone. Theresa May was perfectly right when she called them the nasty party. Not that this has stopped her voting as a nasty.

Redactio · 28/04/2017 21:16

OP assure away to your hearts content, I don't believe you. A lot of your points don't even make any sense on the left-right spectrum. The EU for example is hated by many on the left.

Redactio · 28/04/2017 21:19

"she won't deny triple lock pensions will be scrapped"
Neither has she said they would be.

Redactio · 28/04/2017 21:21

"her 'red line' is immigration, which if you ask most Leavers, wasn't their 'red line'"

The leave remain debate is not left versus right. Personally I voted leave because of the lack of democvracy in the EU.

Redactio · 28/04/2017 21:22

"she won't deny the freeze on tax hikes will be scrapped"
A vote for Labour guarantees tax hikes - it was ever so.

Redactio · 28/04/2017 21:24

"she is hell bent on screwing the economy to prove a point"
Your opinion - please provide evidence, I doubt that you know her well enough.

Redactio · 28/04/2017 21:26

"she is operating under some kind of delusion that EU agencies can remain in what will be a non EU country."
Please provide evidence that this is her opinion.

You just made up a lot of bollocks to launch an attack on a fellow woman, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 28/04/2017 21:40

redactio I'll go through your posts one at a time

  1. if her intention were to maintain triple lock pensions, as has previously been the Tory stance, she would have said so. Silence is evidence that is not her intention if she can help it.

  2. your reason for voting is not on TM's radar- that's rather my point. She has decided it's all about immigration

  3. the previous Tory manifesto froze taxes. It doesn't matter what labour did/do

  4. given she said 'no deal is better than a bad deal' but then can't be arsed to even work out what the consequences of 'no deal' are, you're on pretty shaky ground trying to prove her intentions are to Improve the econony.

  5. david Davis and her spokesperson are on record saying the location of these agencies is still up for negiotiation despite the EU making it quite clear that is not the case, or at least the only discussion is which EU country they will be located in.

As for 'the attacking a fellow woman'- that's a pathetically low blow.

Her gender has nothing to do with anything unless you choose to make it so.

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Original poster
Bearbehind · 28/04/2017 21:44

Oh, I missed your first post- if my points make no sense on the left- right spectrum, why are you so wrongly convinced I've never voted conservative?

OP posts:
Peregrina · 29/04/2017 07:02

Bear
Your point 1) above. Even if she did say she was prepared to maintain the triple lock on pensions, she would change her mind if expedient to do so.

Evidence of such about turns

  • the obvious one is the stated intention at least 5 times not to call an early election
  • the 2015 manifesto commitment to the Single Market.
Original poster
Bearbehind · 29/04/2017 08:57

That's very true peregrina, it's what makes this 'strong and stable' nonsense so ironic- nothing about her leadership so far has been either of those things.

I did wonder last night if redactio actually was TM Grin

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larrygrylls · 29/04/2017 09:15

Bear,

Your most ridiculous and unevidenceable point in your op is 'hell bent on screwing the economy'.

Why would she do this other than insanity?!

No PM wants a bad legacy. Some may be wrong but I doubt any politician deliberately screws an economy.

On the other hand it is far easier to see why the EU might not care about screwing some of its members' economies 'for the greater good'.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 29/04/2017 09:41

larry I acknowledged that point was the hardest to eveidence at this stage but I'd be interested to hear your evidence to the contrary.

I'd also be interested in the answers to the questions you are clearly ignoring about how the benefits of leaving are going to outweigh the known consequences.

My point about the economy is inextricably linked to my question about consequences.

If that comment is so ridiculous and unevidencable, surely you can easily counter it.

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Original poster
Bearbehind · 29/04/2017 09:42

I wouldn't joke about TM's insanity leading her to destroy the economy - I think she's so tunnelled visioned and power crazy that's exactly what she'd do.

I think it's very likely she won't care if her legacy is one of destruction, she'll always have the 'will of the people' to blame.

Her campaign trail is showing just how out of her depth she is- she is completely incapable of dealing with live and unscripted audience or interviews and just resorts to stock sound bites which make her look like a robot.

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woman12345 · 29/04/2017 09:46

Most dangerous for her, is her lack of political allies, on both sides of the house and at both ends of her party. Her political isolation is bad for her own career, but critically bad for us. Old school tories cultivated consensus. (Carrington, Major and Clarke), it's part of the job.

TheElementsSong · 29/04/2017 09:58

destroy the economy

I think the evidence that TM doesn't want to destroy the economy is that she keeps saying "best deal" "negotiations" "success" and "strong and stable".

I'm totally convinced, me.

Peregrina · 29/04/2017 09:59

No PM wants a bad legacy.
But sometimes their actions give them one. You only need to look at David Cameron - he had a Referendum to solve a split within the Tory party, split the country and wrecked his own political career in the process. I don't think for one moment that is what he wanted!

I don't think Theresa May will even realise that she is destroying the economy. I think also that she genuinely believes the soundbites she spouts about 'a country which works for all' but can't see how the legislation she is happy to vote in, goes against that in practice.

Wasn't it Enoch Powell who said that 'All political careers end in failure'?

Original poster
Bearbehind · 29/04/2017 10:01

Oh bugger elements, were we all supposed to be convinced by that?

Now I know I'm totally onboard- it's conclusive evidence it'll all be fine Grin

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BrexshitMeansBrexshit · 29/04/2017 10:21

You just made up a lot of bollocks to launch an attack on a fellow woman, you should be ashamed of yourself.
...says redactio after launching personal attack on fellow woman poster.
Having voted for increased welfare cuts, TM should be ashamed of herself if we're considering female solidarity. After all, women usually bear the brunt of these.

prettybird · 29/04/2017 10:39

TM cares so much about women that she introduces a family cap and a rape clause where women who've had a 3rd child due to rape or coercion have to fill in a form and get sympathetic treatment from the DWP - provided of course she is no longer living with the coercive partner (and we know on MN that leaving a EA/coercive partner is soooo easy Hmm) - and she does so without parliamentary scrutiny and no debate, despite 21 months of this being brought to her attention. Angry

A family cap policy that will impact most negatively on women and which has been condemned the UN. Angry

Here's a petition to sign opposing it. At the very least the public can force the government to debate and justify it - since it refused to listen to the MPs opposing it.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/195077

Tanith · 29/04/2017 11:25

"I think the evidence that TM doesn't want to destroy the economy is that she keeps saying "best deal" "negotiations" "success" and "strong and stable"."

I think that's evidence of the Lynton Crosby soundbytes that the Conservatives are religiously parroting.

They can't actually explain what they mean.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 29/04/2017 11:39

I've long thought there is an element of cult like brain washing among leaver supporters that has conditioned them to question nothing and believe it will all be fine, I'm just really disappointed that so many people are taken it by it all.

So far, just in respect of the GE TM has

  • called it with only 7 weeks to go despite repeatedly saying it wouldn't happen
  • refused to take part in live tv debates
  • appeared at very staged events for a very limited amount of time whilst giving the outward impression she's 'meeting the people'
  • forgotten what town she is in at one venue
  • answered questions with unrelated, pre-rehersed soundbites
  • repeteaded the 'strong and stable' mantra so many times it just sounds idiotic
  • failed to come up with any robust answers on Brexit or other key points

Seriously, why are people happy with this? Why do you not want more from your PM?

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