How can anyone defend TM right now?

[Bearbehind]

And I ask that as a life long Tory voter

• She repeatedly, categorically ruled out having a GE now, then completely u-turned
• she is too spineless to participate in tv debates
• she won't deny triple lock pensions will be scrapped
• she won't deny the freeze on tax hikes will be scrapped
• her 'red line' is immigration, which if you ask most Leavers, wasn't their 'red line'
• she is hell bent on screwing the economy to prove a point
• her Brexit team cannot answer even the most basic questions
• she showed her petticoat to Trump and even he has said the EU will come first
• she is operating under some kind of delusion that EU agencies can remain in what will be a non EU country.

Really, who in their right mind would vote for her?

Life long labour voters who are considering now voting Tory blow my mind.

Seriously, what was ever so bad about the EU that makes it worth all this?

And good luck to us all with walking away

heartfelt prayers might help or not

Maybe we could walk away with a sassy hair flick and sulky pout

And to emphasise how little we need our European neighbours, sort of like cos we're worth it Merkel is meeting with Russia this minute.

www.ft.com/content/4f4fc4ca-2c26-11e7-9ec8-168383da43b7

The same Merkel who doesn't bow to bullies and stands personally for women's rights. She is not an appeaser, she is a strong leader.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/angela-merkel-rejects-headscarf-dress-code-abaya-saudi-arabia-king-salman-jeddah-talks-a7711251.html

Much in contrast to Theresa may.

Maybe, but most people dont want to live in a country that is 'steered' by 27 other country's.

So instead we have to be steered by the 162 countries of the WTO. Some of whom will have scores to settle with us; ex-colonies, who may well enjoy getting one over their old colonial masters, and others who neither know nor care that we are desperate for trade deals, but just ask, "What's in it for our country?"

Believe the MSM if you want . Like the Telegraph which proudly headlined the Conservative being ahead of Labour in Scotland - but ignoring the "57% other"

The people up here aren't turning away from Nicola Sturgeon - she still has a significantly higher approval rating than Theresa May (and than #rapeclauseapologist Ruth Davidson) amongst Scottish voters (and for the avoidance of doubt, I'm meaning "voters in Scotland" not "ethnically Scottish voters").

And support for independence has remained steady - in fact the latest Panelbase poll has 51% support for independence.

But you see, unlike you, even though Brexit might benefit me by making my long term objective of Scottish Independence more likely (I have friends who voted No but promised if we were to leave the EU, they would campaign for Yes - and are standing by that promise), I still care about the rest of the UK and wouldn't wish the train wreck of Brexit on it.

I fully expect that the SNP will lose a few seats at the GE - due to Labour's vote collapsing - but even if the Tories win, say, 10 seats due to tactical voting (which is a worst case scenario), then the SNP would still have at worst 47 seats out of 59. I'd say that was a pretty impressive mandate. Hardly a failure.

But go ahead: you go on thinking that people are turning away from NS and towards the Conservatives. We'll see how many councils the Conservatives control after Thursday.

anon, leaving the bravado of saying we will walk away aside, seriously, how do you see that actually working in practice?

I cant see how it wont work, there are 169 countries in the world that are not in the EU. 159 countries in the WTO. I cant see any reason to believe we won't be a successful country without the EU to hold our hands. I just dont get all the hand wringing, we are not a third world country dependent on aid, or a dictatorship with sanctions against international trade.

Thanks for replying anon, can you elaborate though.

If we just walk away with no deal how will trade from the next day actually happen?

WTO needs to be negiotated with all those countries, what happens in the mean time?

How do we import and export goods and services?

What rules will apply?

Not yet anan not yet.

What I'm voting for in the ballot box is the person whose party espouses a particular set of policies or values
And as you know policies change, get dropped or are implemented in a different way than you thought. So you have to trust the person you are voting for because policies are not legally binding. There is nothing wrong with voting for a person, its what most people do.

And support for independence has remained steady - in fact the latest Panelbase poll has 51% support for independence
NS would never take the UK Scotland out of the EU UK with such a small majority, or is she a hypocrite?

If we just walk away with no deal how will trade from the next day actually happen? WTO needs to be negotiated with all those countries, what happens in the mean time? How do we import and export goods and services? What rules will apply?

We are already a member of the WTO and so will trade on those rules from day 1.

We are already a member of the WTO and so will trade on those rules from day 1.

And there you've just summed up exactly how naive you and several million other leaver voters are

And there you've just summed up exactly how naive you and several million other leaver voters are hmm

And that is one of the reasons why we are leaving the EU. The wealthy liberal elite just expect everyone to be good EU citizens because ... well its to complicated to explain why, to the unintelligent majority.

FFS anon do you really think it's a simple as taking on a standard set of WTO rules from day 1? Honestly?

If you are trying to dismiss those who think there is an unintelligent majority you might want to up your game a little.

FFS anon do you really think it's a simple as taking on a standard set of WTO rules from day 1?

I am sure there will be a few bumps along the road but they will get ironed out and we will carry on our merry way as an independent country.

Perhaps you can elucidate why you think its the end of the world?

anon, if you can't be arsed to research why we cannot just carry on trading as we were from day 1 of WTO then don't expect me to tell you- try googling it

That just illustrates the degree of ignorance that abounds . It is not as simple as "trading under WTO rules" from Day 1 as our current membership is tied up with the EU's, and our obligations and quotas from part of the EU's. They can't just be separated out.

This is a simple () explanation.

http://www.ictsd.org/opinion/nothing-simple-about-uk-regaining-wto-status-post-brexit

"I am sure there will be a few bumps along the road but they will get ironed out and we will carry on our merry way as an independent country"

Oh oh...... haven't been on Mn for a few weeks but this is the poster that posts endless idioms without ever saying anything of substance or factual value. So very grating and unaesthetic.

Bearbehind, I have and it looks like Liam Fox is preparing the necessary draft schedules to replicate as far as possible our current obligations. The other 163 WTO Members do not have a veto over the UK’s scheduled commitments, only their certification. But that is not a worry because certification isn't to important as the EU itself has not traded under certified schedules since 1974.

The secretary-general of the WTO, Roberto Azevêdo recently said "I myself and the WTO secretariat will be available to make the transition as smooth as possible."

So its all going smoothly.

They can't just be separated out
Of course they can, its mostly food quotas which need to be split between the UK and the EU27, not exactly rocket science.

What evidence is there that Fox is preparing said drafts?

prettybird
That's a pretty old article you posted, things have moved on from there, the UK’s WTO Brexit policy is now in an advanced form

What evidence is there that Fox is preparing said drafts?

Because he said it in a ministerial statement to the House of Commons.
Of course he could have been lying but one has to assume another MP or Journalist would have uncovered such a whopper if he was.

So if you believe that anon why would you not be concerned david Davis hasn't bothered looking into the impact of leaving with no deal then?

anon I suggest you read the Tradeblog article on lamb and mutton quotas, just to get a handle on how complicated this will be.

tradebetablog.wordpress.com/2017/01/06/limits-of-possibility/

I will quote a couple of paragraphs:
"The main differences are over “tariff quotas” and possibly some tariffs, and whether these will drag the UK and EU into lengthy and messy negotiations. This even raises the prospect that the “schedules” (essentially lists) of commitments might not be ready at the end of the 2-year Article 50 process of leaving the EU.

To keep this as simple as possible, International Trade Secretary Liam Fox has announced the UK will “replicate as far as possible” the EU’s schedule.

The exact meaning of the statement is debated, but essentially it recognises that straight “replication” is possible in many cases but not in some others.

Where it won’t be possible includes almost 100 tariff quotas (pdf) (where limited quantities can be imported duty-free or at a low tariff). It may even include some tariffs."

Follow the link to get the pdf of the 100 tariff quotes where "replication" will not be possible.

Also, Tradeblog has some handy articles on the complexities of other areas e.g. services tradebetablog.wordpress.com/2017/04/12/eu-uk-wto-services/

There's lots of information on the site, really worth a look.

Short version of the whole day's discussion: Just BeLeave that Great Leader May will make Brexit a Success.

Slightly longer version: Lying, incompetence, calling people picanninnies with watermelon smiles, illegally deporting foreign students, avoiding the electorate and being utterly ignorant of complexities of trade and international relations are not just acceptable but desirable values in Brexit Britain.