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Brexit
Original poster

How can anyone defend TM right now?

402 replies

Bearbehind · 22/04/2017 19:40

And I ask that as a life long Tory voter

  • She repeatedly, categorically ruled out having a GE now, then completely u-turned
  • she is too spineless to participate in tv debates
  • she won't deny triple lock pensions will be scrapped
  • she won't deny the freeze on tax hikes will be scrapped
  • her 'red line' is immigration, which if you ask most Leavers, wasn't their 'red line'
  • she is hell bent on screwing the economy to prove a point
  • her Brexit team cannot answer even the most basic questions
  • she showed her petticoat to Trump and even he has said the EU will come first
  • she is operating under some kind of delusion that EU agencies can remain in what will be a non EU country.

Really, who in their right mind would vote for her?

Life long labour voters who are considering now voting Tory blow my mind.

Seriously, what was ever so bad about the EU that makes it worth all this?

OP posts:
TheElementsSong · 01/05/2017 07:54

She's old fashioned with good values and common sense.

Like lying about asylum seeker's pet cats, illegally deporting foreign students, delusionally claiming 65 million people agree with her, booking a so-called "meet the captive tenants rally" under the guise of a children's party, being too cowardly to condemn her gurus the newspapers when they call our judiciary "enemies of the people" and political opponents "saboteurs" while eagerly condemning some made up crap about Easter eggs?

I'm totally in agreement. Her values are truly a fine example that all true British patriots should emulate in all aspects of life.

JanetBrown2015 · 01/05/2017 09:15

Let us see which of us agree with her on results day next month. I think she's really good and I hope all mumsnetters vote for her.

I don't however think we do anything like enough to deport those who break the law and should not be here. We seem to have endless appeals and then people either are removed (rarely) and then before you know it they are back in again. It's pathetic. We need to enforce the law a lot better.

prettybird · 01/05/2017 09:26

You do know that that is the EHCR "stopping" us, which is not part of the EU and which we are not leaving yet? Confused

Cupofteaandtoilet · 01/05/2017 09:30

53 year old previous life long Tory voter (apart from as a teenager). Never active in politics nor particularly interested.

Rocked to my core by the direction this country is taking. Tories have jumped massively to the right, Labour to the left, leaving the centre - previously overcrowded by all parties - virtually empty. LDs under Tim Farron are not appealing, not that I dislike him; he's just not strong enough.

I cannot fathom why TM is so popular. I think she is awful. I hate her actions, her policies, her demeanour, her words. I feel out of place in my country and extremely unsettled. I've never felt like this before and I find it distressing.

Peregrina · 01/05/2017 09:31

You do know that that is the EHCR "stopping" us, which is not part of the EU and which we are not leaving yet?

But May, not being a student of history, doesn't realise that a) it comes from the Council of Europe, of which the UK were founder members, b) it was written primarily by British Lawyers.

prettybird · 01/05/2017 09:37

Got the initials the wrong way round in my frustration Blush I did of course mean the ECHR Grin

TheElementsSong · 01/05/2017 10:44

Let us see which of us agree with her on results day next month.

(1) No doubt much of the country will agree with you.
(2) Just because many people are in agreement on something, does not make it "correct".
(3) If it is now "wrong" to be unsupportive of lies, delusions, incompetence and xenophobia, I am proud to be wrong.

So: TM's good old-fashioned values and common sense - a truly inspirational model for us all to emulate? Yes/No?

BrexshitMeansBrexshit · 01/05/2017 11:49

I'm sure TM will do very well in the election because the UK is full of people who don't vote for policies or who don't look at a party's record in government. Instead, they just blindly vote for the party they've always voted for. Like these people...

Anon1234567890 · 01/05/2017 13:03

It's truly pointless try to argue the merits of this one with someone who doesn't even have the courage of their convictions to tell their own parents why they voted as they did.
Why does me upsetting a frail old woman who lives in a different country and whom I have never discussed politics with have any bearing on the merits of my position?

Their children who overwhelmingly voted remain
And as previously discussed those children grow up, their political views will mature and they will be glad they live in a sovereign country able to make their own laws, control their own borders and decide who they trade with around the world.

Like lying about asylum seeker's pet cats
TM is right to highlight the absurd rules that allow illegal immigrants to use the right to a family life to stay in the UK. The fact that having a pet is even brought up in a court case as demonstration of having a right to stay here is ridiculous.

And before some idiot points it out again, yes we all know the ECHR is not part of the EU, that doesn't make the rule any less stupid.

I'm sure TM will do very well in the election because the UK is full of people who don't vote for policies Confused Well we dont vote for policies we vote for people. JC might have some good ideas but hardly anyone believes they are possible or that he is the one that will make them possible. And that is why TM is so much more trusted than JC because she talks sense whereas JC just talks nonsense.

Kaija · 01/05/2017 13:10

Anon, we were always a sovereign country. That was even acknowledged in TM's Brexit white paper.

Peregrina · 01/05/2017 13:14

And before some idiot points it out again, yes we all know the ECHR is not part of the EU, that doesn't make the rule any less stupid.

So if you believe the rule is stupid, are you implying that our own lawmakers were stupid? People who had lived through and probably served in a brutal war, and wanted to do what they could to stop it happening again?

Anon1234567890 · 01/05/2017 13:18

we were always a sovereign country
In theory yes but until we leave the EU we can't exercise our full sovereignty in practice. And given the desire of the EU for more and more integration, in ten years time who knows when the EU will take full sovereignty of its member regions.

prettybird · 01/05/2017 13:25

I'm 56. I'm proud to have voted Remain - not just for me (as it won't really make that much difference apart from the fact that it would appear I'm going to have to thole living in a far right dystopian society l as I'm fortunate enough to have a tiny mortgage, nearly paid off, in a lovely suburb and because I have large savings, when if the interest rates go up, I will benefit) but for my son and his future and all those less fortunate than me, whose rights and environment will be screwed by a Conservative Far Right Party which wants to turn us into a low tax, low regulation sweat shop economy.

My 59 year old dh feels the same. As do all of my 50 something friends. And my 80 year old father. And 62% of my fellow countrymen and women.

Sorry not sorry to disabuse you but not everyone becomes more selfish turns Conservative as they get older. Hmm

Anon1234567890 · 01/05/2017 13:25

So if you believe the rule is stupid, are you implying that our own lawmakers were stupid?

No I am saying the right to a family life was written into law, nearly 70 years ago. It is no longer fit for purpose in the modern world of terrorism, FOM, and mass migration. It needs to be updated.

Anon1234567890 · 01/05/2017 13:30

prettybird - I guess you live in Scotland then where people are starting to turn against NS and towards the Conservative party?

Peregrina · 01/05/2017 13:31

Actually though Anon, that's not what you said - you didn't say it was outdated and needed revision, you said it was stupid.

There was also huge mass migration as a result of the last war, as countries like Poland were shifted westwards, and E Europe came under the influence of the Soviet Union, plus displace persons trying to get home again. Not unlike today.

Peregrina · 01/05/2017 13:33

The refugee crisis was not unlike today, just to clarify. Plus whole towns totally destroyed.

I doubt whether the people who drew up the laws were stupid, and certain things were probably considered basic human rights, which haven't changed.

Waterbeads · 01/05/2017 13:35

"In theory yes but until we leave the EU we can't exercise our full sovereignty in practice." Any trade deal with the rest of the world galaxy will require serious concessions probably more painful ones than we have with the EU now.

At least in the EU we had power to steer. Now as a third country and trading under WHO rules we will have less influencing power and have to give more to secure deals as everyone knows that we will be desperate.

Brexit >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, so, so stupid.

Anon1234567890 · 01/05/2017 13:37

you didn't say it was outdated and needed revision, you said it was stupid Yes and I stand by that, in 2017 it is a stupid rule, it needs to be scrapped, changed or updated.

Anon1234567890 · 01/05/2017 13:51

At least in the EU we had power to steer
Maybe, but most people dont want to live in a country that is 'steered' by 27 other country's.

under WHO rules we will have less influencing power and have to give more to secure deals as everyone knows that we will be desperate
That's your opinion, I dont share it. I dont see TM desperate to get a deal with the EU at all costs. If its not good enough we will walk away, we are not desperate.

BrexshitMeansBrexshit · 01/05/2017 13:53

Well we dont vote for policies we vote for people.
Speak for yourself, Anon.
I certainly don't vote for people. I read manifestos, look at the party's record in government and make my choice.
Prettybird I'm another one who has not become more Conservative as I've got older. Maybe it's something to do with having lived through the Thatcher years Grin
I don't know anyone in my age group - apart from my DM reading brother in law - who votes Tory. He still believes in trickle-down economics, too - something I stopped believing in a long time ago!

Original poster
Bearbehind · 01/05/2017 13:54

anon, leaving the bravado of saying we will walk away aside, seriously, how do you see that actually working in practice?

OP posts:
Anon1234567890 · 01/05/2017 13:58

Speak for yourself, Anon. I certainly don't vote for people
Well you must get a different ballot paper than me because all I get is a list of peoples names and I have to pick one.

Waterbeads · 01/05/2017 14:13

"Maybe, but most people dont want to live in a country that is 'steered' by 27 other country's." That's factually unsubstantiated and most probably incorrect.

"That's your opinion, I dont share it. I dont see TM desperate to get a deal with the EU at all costs. If its not good enough we will walk away, we are not desperate." It's not the EU we should worry most about with regards to concessions but the rest of the world. We already know that India will want EasyVisa in return for any deal. >>> More immigration from Asian and African countries. Judging by the Leave campaign immigration is not viewed in a positive light.

no matter how a couple of Leavers will jump up and down and say they want immigration to be fair to the whole world and not have a European 'bias'.

BrexshitMeansBrexshit · 01/05/2017 14:13

God Anon, you really are so tiresome with your 'I know you are, but what am I?' style arguments. Can't you do better and try to engage in some meaningful discussion? Obviously the ballot paper has names on it. Names of representatives of parties whose manifestos I've read and whose record in government I've looked at. What I'm voting for in the ballot box is the person whose party espouses a particular set of policies or values. If you do something different and just vote for people without considering what they represent, more fool you.