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Brexit
Original poster

How can anyone defend TM right now?

402 replies

Bearbehind · 22/04/2017 19:40

And I ask that as a life long Tory voter

  • She repeatedly, categorically ruled out having a GE now, then completely u-turned
  • she is too spineless to participate in tv debates
  • she won't deny triple lock pensions will be scrapped
  • she won't deny the freeze on tax hikes will be scrapped
  • her 'red line' is immigration, which if you ask most Leavers, wasn't their 'red line'
  • she is hell bent on screwing the economy to prove a point
  • her Brexit team cannot answer even the most basic questions
  • she showed her petticoat to Trump and even he has said the EU will come first
  • she is operating under some kind of delusion that EU agencies can remain in what will be a non EU country.

Really, who in their right mind would vote for her?

Life long labour voters who are considering now voting Tory blow my mind.

Seriously, what was ever so bad about the EU that makes it worth all this?

OP posts:
RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 30/04/2017 19:09

anon

I have said nothing to apologise for Confused

Anon1234567890 · 30/04/2017 19:09

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer

Then WFT was that rant aimed at me about?

Original poster
Bearbehind · 30/04/2017 19:10

On the issue of parallel talks I dont think the EU disagree with us its all a matter of spin, we agree our Brexit bill at the start but it will be meaningless until we agree the trade deal because nothing is agreed until everything is agreed

Seriously, why do you believe that is the case?

We are one small country.

27 other countries took minutes to agree this and every single one of them has a veto.

I agree the choice is between a rock and a hard place because Corbyn is stuck in the 1970s but, whoever wins the GE can be voted out next time- leaving the EU is for good.

OP posts:
Redactio · 30/04/2017 19:12

"leaving the EU is for good"
Thank fuck for that!

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 30/04/2017 19:12

Oh bless you anon

I am truly sorry...I honestly thought you were not understanding on purpose

But you really don't understand....

Wine for you

Anon1234567890 · 30/04/2017 19:25

Bearbehind

You never answered why you believe EU politicians only ever tell the truth but UK politicians are liars?

Seriously, why do you believe that is the case?
Because it was the EU that said nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. Or are you saying they are lying?

We are one small country
No we are the second biggest net contributor to the EU budget. And losing that scares the EU. The amount we trade with the EU is a loss they can sustain when divided across the 27, but its not a hit them want to make. We can replace the EU trade but they are constrained by negotiations that 27 countries can veto.

whoever wins the GE can be voted out next time- leaving the EU is for good
I think that is one of the things that swung it for Brexit. Voting to stay meant voting to stay in the EU forever, ever closer union and all that would bring. It was a step to far for the UK. As we are seeing the EU would welcome us back with open arms, so if Brexit fails we can change our mind in 5 years. Its a risk worth taking.

Anon1234567890 · 30/04/2017 19:28

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer

I accept I am not a genius, I hope I am not simple. I still dont get why you were mad at me? Was your glass of wine genuine or just another dig at a leave supporter?

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 30/04/2017 19:30

Honestly i dont think i have made any digs at leave supporters on the threads

Not for voting leave anyway...loads of my friends and family voted leave if that helps

An honest offer of Wine

I am having one too Smile

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 30/04/2017 19:33

Plus i am really trying to say leave and remain voters

How we voted months ago doesnt and shouldnt define us forever

Anon1234567890 · 30/04/2017 19:36

Thank you Rufus, have a Wine on me as well. I did get quite worked up over Brexit in the past but think I am more chilled about it now.

My mother doesn't even know I support leave now, she would disown me if she did, as she lives in NI.

The only thing that upsets me is that some people think all leavers are evil bastards. We are not, we only want what is best for our country too.

Anon1234567890 · 30/04/2017 19:38

When it comes to voting for TM or JC, everyone, and I mean everyone (Labour and Tory that I know) says there is only one choice. Even the most ardent Labour I know are planning on staying at home.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 30/04/2017 19:42

Thanks anon

I honestly believe that most people who voted remain and leave did so because they thought it was the right thing to do

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 30/04/2017 19:44

Think you are right about JC anon

i also think a lot of people will be struggling with who to vote for this time round

I am completely confused Grin

Anon1234567890 · 30/04/2017 19:59

I think there are a few in the Labour party that will could really put up a fight for the country. Yvette Cooper, has to much baggage but maybe Stella Creasy? I would like to see them debate, dont know how I would vote in that scenario. Maybe even Tom Watson but think he might be to far left for me. TM seems middle of the road to me dont get this far right image of her. Just hope JC moves aside when he loses.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 30/04/2017 20:05

I am probably a bit of a centralist

Would vote more left or right for the 'right' party leader

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 30/04/2017 20:06

Dh has voted tory all his life but would absolutely vote labour if Chuka was the leader

Anon1234567890 · 30/04/2017 20:16

I voted Green when I was younger. Nice idea but policies are crazy.

As people get older the more likely they are to vote Tory, why is that, other than experience brings enlightenment.

One of the things that started me voting Tory was so many of my friends who claimed to be Labour started to change when they had kids. From tax to schools, almost like Labour was a nice idea but Tory was the practical reality.

Chuka might get my vote, would give him a fair hearing if he was going for leader.

Figmentofmyimagination · 30/04/2017 21:10

In general, people tend towards voting Tory as they get older because they are more likely to have built up assets, and so become more concerned about preserving their own individual assets, over collective goods. As we become older, we become less confident of our ability to recover from risks, and more determined to hold onto what we have. The whole 'voice of experience' thing is an example of cognitive dissonance that makes us feel better.

The weird thing about brexit though is that whereas in the past, in the privacy of the polling booth, it made sense, from the perspective of preserving your own individual assets, especially the value of your house, to vote conservative, ever since brexit that is clearly no longer the case, as conservatism, for anyone stops and thinks eg about the impact of brexit on the cost of basic necessities and about our international trading reputation, on its impact on our long term economic and political safety and credibility, has become the party of economic uncertainty and ideological irrationality. Strange times.

Anon1234567890 · 30/04/2017 22:17

it made sense, from the perspective of preserving your own individual assets, especially the value of your house, to vote conservative, ever since Brexit that is clearly no longer the case

Human nature does put the self first but there reaches a point where your children become more important. I think Brexit personifies that. The EU was a good idea in the beginning but people have realized that it has reached the point where, despite it hurting themselves, it will be better for their descendants if we were out of the EU and they are willing to take that hit for the sake of their children.

JanetBrown2015 · 30/04/2017 22:33

Figment, I don't think the Tories have been the party of irrationality etc or even of Brexit. Loads of Tories including me voted Remain. Both parties were split in two.

May will do well in June and rightly so but I do hope every mumsnetter does vote whatever they vote for. Use that vote. It's very important.

Potterypots · 30/04/2017 23:10

I think TM is the most credible PM we have had in years and I will definitely be voting for her.

She's old fashioned with good values and common sense.

I have a certain admiration for Corbyn but there's no way I'd trust him or any other Labour politician to run the country. What made me particularly sick was seeing Tony Blair trying to get back in on the act..in my opinion he should have been locked up years ago!

Kaija · 01/05/2017 00:01

" and they are willing to take that hit for the sake of their children"

But unfortunately it will be their children taking the hit. Their children who overwhelmingly voted remain.

Peregrina · 01/05/2017 00:49

I hope our children (and grandchildren) grow up more politically astute and kick out the current self-serving politicians, as soon as they are in a position to do so.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 01/05/2017 01:04

My mother doesn't even know I support leave now, she would disown me if she did, as she lives in NI.

It's truly pointiess try to argue the merits of this one with someone who doesn't even have the courage of their convictions to tell their own parents why they voted as they did.

OP posts:
Peregrina · 01/05/2017 07:24

someone who doesn't even have the courage of their convictions to tell their own parents why they voted as they did.

I am not 100% in agreement with this. With an elderly relative, who may not have a long time to live, sometimes it's worth biting your tongue. You haven't got the years ahead of you to patch up a quarrel; sometimes maintaining harmony is the better course of action. I am thinking of a relative of say 80+.

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