Will Brexit deliver Irish reunification?

[Drunkvet]

Just that- will a united Ireland be an after effect of Brexit? Let's be honest, without EU money NI is going to cost the UK government ££££; NI has always been the annoying, problem child. Both UK and EU have said there will be no hard border but, surely, there will have to be a border and customs control somewhere? So it would make sense to have the border around the island of Britain (Eng/Scot/wal)
The demographics in N.Ireland are changing. We no longer have a unionist majority at Stormont. Well TBH we don't have a devolved govmt at all ATM but that's a whole, other thread.
While I can't see a UI this year or next year I do feel that Brexit has brought it forward and there will be a border poll in the next 5-10 years.

I can guess what side of the debate your on

The side of "correct terminology" side, I would think.

And if you are going to nit pick about terminology, it might help to learn the difference between your and you're.

MrsD who is your message aimed at? The partition of Ireland isn't my responsibility. Your post strikes me as odd

Weshouldopen If brexit causes issues with cross border ROI-NI or NI/ROI-UK trade, then gradually the consensus will change.

The cross border movement of agricultural produce and animals is going to be a huge issue. I'm not sure how it can be solved in a way that doesn't ultimately lead to reunification (unless brexit is very soft indeed).

Right let's not drag this back to themuns and whataboutery and sides. Take that somewhere else please
I am not interested in what 'persuasion' you are; what foot you kick with or what terminology you use. I'm not even interested in if you WANT a united Ireland. I would like to know if you think Brexit will make it more likely and your reasoning. I'm interested in that and will discuss that. But see this North of Ireland/Northern Ireland shit- take it some place else. Don't hijack my thread with your prejudice. You just come over like a dick.

And given that reunification would mean the people of N.Ireland joining a Catholic state I think it is a very relevant thing to say.

But would it be a Catholic state though? Page 8 of Towards a United Ireland suggests a secular state. SF bias taken for granted, of course, but is there any reason why it wouldn't be a realistic aim in the interests on ongoing peace?

Not trying to goad, genuinely curious about the (as yet) hypotheticals.

Somerville Its not the North of Ireland, Its NORTHERN IRELAND.

Kind of summing up the whole point.

BTW - the North of Ireland? I didn't write that. I call it the north of Ireland (no capital).

You could easily reverse that statment

Erm... except that the reverse isn't true. What I said, is. Brexiteer politicians demonstrably don't give a shiny shit about what they've done to the Good Friday agreement - and they have short memories about both the costs (in cash and even more importantly in human lives) and that the IRA learned that taking the struggle to the mainland was how to succeed. Their naivety astounds me. And the consequences sadden me. Except, EXCEPT, for one thing... that there is now a chink of hope for a United Ireland within my lifetime.

Every time this question is posed it reminds me of the Nuns in The Sound of Music singing How Do We Solve A Problem Like Maria? Apparently it was to tut tut and do nothing to actually solve the problem except encourage her to feck off elsewhere where she could be someone else's problem.

It's hilarious to me, as ROI resident, that anyone thinks we have any intention of cleaning up Britain's mess. We take on the expense of a half a million people and all their problems just because of a vote in the UK? Don't bloody think so.

Totally agree, Elspeth. Total wishful thinking. We no more want NI than we want to leave the EU.

OK I will bow out of this debate then, it seems to be full of Welsh people from the South West of England. I guess names of countries are irrelevant. Where I am from we call this being passive aggressive. Or, why would you need to reunify the North of Ireland with the South of Ireland as they never left each other?

I xposted with you OP, and genuinely sorry if my response to the questioning I got about my terminology irked you.
The problem is that it can't be discussed without using 'terminology' (words) that immediately raise hackles in some other posters. This has been an issue my whole life - I can't say the name of the city I was born in without being admonished/corrected by a significant number of people.
So I'll leave you to discuss it with those better at choosing neutral language that I am, but I will continue reading with interest.

But Elspeth do you not think that Brexit and a customs border between NI and ROI will have a negative impact on ROI economy? A UI might be the lesser of 2 evils. Whether you like it or not that UK vote is going to have ramifications for your country. It's not fair, you have no choice in it but that's how it is.

Except I have to ask BaggyCheeks, " do you really think the Irish would be happy to give up their Catholic state for a Secular one? I have been there more than a few times and would politely suggest there is more of a snowballs chance in hell. I mean seriously have you been there? Its part of their DNA.

Actually I think this thread illustrates the whole problem with NI.
People are so involved in pointing out everyone's prejudice and incorrect use of terminology that they very rarely do anything constructive about the situation :)

How could supporting half a million extra people be the more economical option in any scenario? Come on!!!!

sommerville a fellow Derry girl? I have no problem with ppl using whatever name they want. It's the faux offence that often goes with it Why not just let it go?

I don't know Elspeth, but I'm fairly sure Brexit will not be kind to a recovering ROI economy. Hey maybe ROI will apply to rejoin the union. There's a thought.

Are you just trolling now??

Or are you just naturally offensive?

The Derry area will be the hardest hit by brexit won't it? :(

I think the solution has to be to negotiate to keep NI in the EU customs union for the time being; that would postpone the reunification issue. If NI businesses were cut off from their closest market it would be disastrous.

Deep breath, ok will ignore the language people use from now on because I am interested in the substantial point of this thread.

a customs border between NI and ROI will have a negative impact on ROI economy
Thats still to be discovered. But what if the border was electronic, some number plate recognition cameras and a 1 in a thousand chance of being pulled over, like they do in Dover with a virtual customs procedure.

Would that really be a big deal to people? Would it really harm the anyone?

Drunkvet I have no problem with ppl using whatever name they want. It's the faux offence that often goes with it Why not just let it go?

Its not faux offence, imagine if England refereed to people in Scotland as those living in the North of England. Do you think they would be offended? Do you think it would be faux offence?

People identities matter. Surly Brexit has showed us all that.

Its not faux offence, imagine if England refereed to people in Scotland as those living in the North of England.

It might not be faux offence, but that sure as hell is a faux analogy.

As for "Catholic state" "in their DNA", your bigotry (and ignorance) is showing. There is no established church in Ireland (unlike England and Wales, btw).

Aye, of course, Drunkvet. or, being Derry girls

I didn't display faux-offence, I don't think. Didn't intend to, anyway. I do feel annoyed when I'm corrected about what I call the place I'm from, but then again I'm old enough to remember the years when it wasn't safe to answer a question about where I'm from. At least I can now do so safely, I guess.

Back to the point at hand: Anon - a 'soft' border with only cameras is the only possible option that won't lead to bloodshed. It cannot be safely manned so a 1/1000 chance of being pulled over is not an option. And the cameras would be broken all the time. If the authorities turn a blind eye to that then it might all be grand.

Anyway, OP, I do think Brexit will lead in the long run to Irish reunification. I didn't think it would happen in my lifetime, or indeed ever actually, now I wouldn't be surprised if in 30 years time there was de facto Irish unity. I think unionist farmers might possibly be a big swing constituency in that regard, and I think there's a growing middle ground from both communities who will be alienated from UK civil society by all that's going hand in hand with hard Brexit.

Sorry if I offended you Elsbeth, it was my poor attempt at humour.

Anon- yes identity matters. However someone saying Ulster or NI or north of Ireland doesn't change my idea of my identity. I think there are bigger fish to fry

So seemingly you cannot have a thread on MN about NI.
Sorry to anyone I offended, faux or otherwise. I just wanted to try to have a discussion that I thought was missing from this section. I'll toddle back to my lair to lurk. and for all

In their DNA Ouch. I was under the impression that the Church was in decline in Ireland - or I only know the few oddballs who are annoyed at having to baptise their children to get a school place.

I think it's pretty insulting to suggest that people are so single-minded that they wouldn't be able to work through differences, real or perceived, to achieve a common goal.

A soft border at Dover works while we're in the EU - it's a bit up in the air as to what will happen with that once we're out.