Remainers - What do you want? When do you want it?

[optionalrationale]

We had the referendum, we had the legal challenge, we had the Supreme Court ruling, Article 50 has been triggered. The United Kingdom will no longer be part of the European Union.

So my questions to Remainers are
What do you want? When do you want it?

Here's what I want..

I want the negotiations to go well. I want future relations with our neighbours to be cordial. I want a good deal for UK and the EU. I want us to walk away if their demands are unacceptable (and stem from vindictiveness and to deter other members from following our lead). I want the UK to be free to make good trade deals with any country it wants. I want the UK to lead in creating a new model of trade without excessive interference in each partner's social and political arena.

Complete and total lack of empathy
Merkel's a clever woman. She also had the humanity to realise how cruel it was to send a refugee girl back to a war zone and welcome 1 million others to Germany ; and face down the AFD, with considerable success of late. The comparison is shaming.

I suppose with Germany, it can always be said - look what happened to us in the 1930s. That must give Merkel ammunition to face down AFD. Having grown up in East Germany must have given her a different perspective.

England does not have that memory or that experience. When it boils down, the life experience of Theresa May and her Cabinet is extremely narrow.

As in, Badders on the other hand, Merkel is also brainy but humane compared with May.

Great education is a privilege, due to a civilised welfare state, not an entitlement of affluence. For mine, I am eternally grateful, and it's why I chose to work for public services. It's still a travesty that our brainy working class girls and boys won't get a sniff, as it takes a mortgage to get a degree now.

Peregrina I agree, but having a heart, can't be limited to those who were brought up in East Germany. Is Maidenhead really so evil

I don't know Maidenhead, but I don't think they had Communism. I don't think they were driving round in Trabants, while nearby TV stations were beaming adverts showing Consumer goods available in Reading.

The contrast between May and Merkel is startling - both daughters of clergymen, both university educated, both married to husbands who tend to keep out of the limelight. I know Merkel was a scientist, May's geography degree would depend on what options she took before you could described it as such. Either way, neither were the typical PPE graduate favoured by British PMs. But how different their outlook. Merkel has, of course, won elections. May has yet to do so, and it could all change, unlikely though it seems at the moment. Merkel is also not blessed or cursed by a rabid right wing press.

I don't know Maidenhead, but I don't think they had Communism
Ooh, I don't know, Peregrina, it's maybe a bit more anarchist syndicalist than Oxford .

Someone posted this great article earlier on Westminstenders on how the German government is being strategic and practical about taking down their fascists.
www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/this-is-how-germany-fought-back-against-far-right-populism?utm_term=.erzMo4mEX#.ct5EOxYK2
Including Die Bild. Startling comparison with a rabid DM headline.

I agree
Having a brain should not mean one is without the basic ability to empathise with others
I got good exam results
There was never any chance of me going to uni
My father was the same - passed the 11+ but the family could only afford to send one of heir children - this was not uncommon in large working class families

shrug<
It angers me that kids with brains are kept out of education due to money
And as for grammars- how are they anything but socially divisive!?
😡😡😡😡

A poster (sorry I'm very tired and I can't remember who it was!) made the point that the UK was not invaded in WW2 and was not reduced to rubble like any parts of mainland Europe
Maybe that's why we (the UK) don't feel the need to challenge the likes of farage and ukip so robustly?
I think some ukippers and brexiters really believe that plucky old Blighty fought alone for 6 years and the rest of Europe were cheese eating surrender monkeys!!
🙄
Certainly the UK has never had the very real sense of belonging to the EU that the other member states have - for them it's so much more than an economic bloc....I think for them it has real social and political importance we could never understand

I've taught in grammars; bit of creative exam passing also goes into who gets in. Badders Grammars are in very freemasony areas ifyswim

Intelligence and wealth are sometimes mutually exclusive, but now it seems that one simply pays for exam certificates.

No one can take away what one teaches oneself. I always follow old Nelson Mandela and his comrades' lead. They studied like billyo in jail. Just learn it anyway, it's what I do.

T'internet is quite the thing for education, I'm finding. I don't think my modest degrees have earned me much in money, but in thought, they are invaluable. And I prefer thought.

Funnily enough I'm looking at the OU free short courses atm! 😊 I fancy learning latin
I started a degree with the OU but then the fees went up so that was that 😞

Go Badders I'd love to do latin. You know future learn, I'm guessing.
www.futurelearn.com
I've done a mad range of free courses on it this year. Ever since the Trumpster won, I've decided to learn more. But it's fucking travesty about OU fees. I trained to teach in FE to empower without fees, but what can you do. Get books, and read them I guess.

Fuck me this fred has taken a turn.

Whoever said Remainers were a condescending bunch? Now you're looking down your noses at the PM.

If she is so crap, and you're all so much brighter, well informed, better educated, naturally curious, intellectually gifted, what the fuck is stopping you from creating your own party and leading it (as suggested by a pp)?

Miss Moon
"We see lots of these cases (in my Cambridge college). Students, often grammar school kids (mainly girls) who have been heavily tutored through school, who work very hard to get in, then do very badly once they are here as they are not creative or intellectual enough to have the curiosity to do well. They are hard workers, but that isn't enough. I think this is Theresa May in a nutshell."

Fuckadoodle doo. Do you have ANY idea how incredibly smug, condescending, nasty and arrogant you sound?

You look down on the PM in such a scathing way. Heaven only knows what you think about the builders and plumbers of the UK.

It is no fucking wonder you lost 52% of the electorate.

Your attitude makes me so fucking glad YOU LOST!!

Compassionate warm wishes to you optionalrationale

"Heaven only knows what you think about the builders and plumbers of the UK"

My Polish plumber is great. Very skilled, friendly, charges a lot but I don't mind as he's very good. I hope he doesn't go back to Poland post-Brexit.

Badders123
"The UK was not invaded in WW2 and was not reduced to rubble like any parts of mainland Europe"

Excuse me? Did they teach any history at your school. While mainland Great Britain was not invaded by the Germans, the risk of invasion was very real. A
France surrendered in a matter of weeks, declaring Paris a "free city" so that the Germans were able to roll in unhindered.

Meanwhile, much of Great Britain was indeed "reduced to rubble" (including most of the East End, Coventry, Hull and many other cities).

Have you ever heard of The Blitz? Who did the Germans fire their V1 and V2s at?

Clue: It was not France

But Britain wasn't invaded though. optionalrationale

Heaven only knows what you think about the builders and plumbers of the UK.

Put it this way, I personally have the greatest respect for Dennis Skinner MP who spent 20 years as a miner before entering Parliament. I don't always agree with what he says, and only once voted for his party, but I believe that he is hard working, committed to the people of his constituency and is a man of principles and integrity.
I also admire the way he can think on his feet and comes back with a quick witted riposte. I wish we had more of his calibre in Parliament.

So cut out the judgement.

MissMoon
You should make the most of your freedom to move to Poland while you still enjoy free movement of labour.

Woop, there it is

You should make the most of your freedom to move to Poland while you still enjoy free movement of labour
What does this mean?

The risk of invasion was only real in the early part of the War. Once Hitler went and opened up the eastern front, the pressure was off the UK to a large extent. This helped to save our bacon.

Oh and that wonderful Dunkirk spirit. Yes, we did well to get so many people back, but there were losses of life and huge losses of equipment, so the army wasn't in a fit state to fight anything or anywhere in the aftermath. It took time to regroup and rebuild. The French regard it as a great betrayal.

Woman12345
"But Britain wasn't invaded though. optionalrationale"

Did you win prizes for reading as well as history? You're right that mainland Britain was not invaded, but the Channel Islands were. Did you know this?
Have you ever heard of Operation Sealion?

Did you know that for most of WW2 Great Britain was the last and only nation standing against Germam onslaught? Do you know that the leading
(already surrendered) French military leader said "England will have her neck rung like a chicken within weeks"? To which, after , months of German bombardment, Churchill's retort to the surrendered French was "Some chicken! Some neck!"

Have you ever heard of the Battle of Britain?

Peregrina
This is getting good. I am so glad you Remainers are revealing your true colours

Your

"Oh and that wonderful Dunkirk spirit. Yes, we did well to get so many people back, but there were losses of life and huge losses of equipment, so the army wasn't in a fit state to fight anything or anywhere in the aftermath. It took time to regroup and rebuild. The French regard it as a great betrayal."

So the French regard it as a "great betrayal"? Do they indeed? What language would they be speaking now if millions of UK, US, and Commonwealth soldiers hadn't liberated them from years of German occupation in a little project that started on D-Day. What do the French call that?

Errm, have you heard of the Eastern Front optional? Battle of Stalingrad?
Have you remembered the Commonwealth troops with British troops. Do or did you know any Irish men who voluntarily fought for Britain?
(I did, but they are now deceased.) Have you remembered the Polish air squadrons who fought alongside the RAF? Which might have made you pause to consider why we have established Polish communities in this country.
For being the only nation standing may have been true for a part of the war, but we had a lot of help, which we conveniently forget.

optional I respect anyone who is good at what they do, or at least treats others with respect. There aren't any plumbers in my family but plenty of electricians, works engineers and overlookers and the person I respected most in the world worked in the canteen at the sauceworks, not just hard working but kind and tolerant and with a quick wit and wicked sense of humour. Aside from being hard working I see none of those virtues in May.