Westminstenders: And so it begins

[RedToothBrush]

Promises made that can not be kept.

We have already fallen at the first stumbling block: the desire for parallel talks on exit and future relationship that May wanted has been rejected. Not that this is a surprise seeing as we were told this.

This isn't two years of negotiations for a good deal. Forget any suggestions that it is. It's two years of damage limitation and domestic pr.

For both the UK and EU.

I do believe that May's attitude - which seemed to be more friendly in her speech and letter yesterday - has burnt all our bridges.

This talk of the world needing the EU's 'liberal democracy' isn't aimed at the EU though. Her use of the words that produced uproar in the HoC yesterday was deliberate. Why use it? It was always going to produce a reaction.

When May says she will have a consensus at home to achieve this goal one of two things must happen: to prove just how much we need the EU to make a political reversal possible at the expense of her head or to vilify the EU to a point that Remainers suddenly change their mind.

To get a good deal for the UK she can not satisfy her hard line Brexiteers. It is impossible purely because to do otherwise is like breaking the laws of physics. Trade is done mostly with who you are closest too. This is the inescapable truth. We are leaving the EU but not Europe as keeps being pointed out.

If we want to trade we have to accept EU regulations. If we do not, we do not trade. Rules we can now no longer influence by must obey.

We can not reduce immigration. We have had control of non-Eu immigration and that is not going down due to skills shortages. To combat this schools are getting less money.

In terms of sovereignty and British parliament we just gave that away. The 'Great' Repeal Act is a power grab by the executive. It seems to give the powers of the monarch to Mrs May and take them away from parliamentary scrutiny. At the same time we are forced to become beholden to Trump's America. A man who screws people for a living and has not a shred of honour.

Using security as our bargaining chip misses the obvious. If we do not cooperate we endanger Brits abroad and ourselves domestically. Are we really prepared to stop?

The opportunities of Brexit Britain are bleak. This will be normalised.

Good luck folks. We are gonna need it.

Interesting article Misti thanks. From the people I talk to there is no doubt that they have looked upon Brexit and decided that it is a thoroughly bad idea. So maybe some good has come of it..... 🤔

On voit déjà la merde avec les Anglais Thanks for posting Misti.

Whilst everyone is busy watching Labour doing the Tories' dirty work for them falling apart, this nugget may get lost:

FOM continue after brexit
Isn't the reason we've torn our country apart immigration?

Someone a while back was asking about data, when people posted, what they posted and recording for posterity.

I made a visualization after downloading info from all the threads on this board.

public.tableau.com/profile/summer.lightning#!/vizhome/Apples_2/Dashboard1

If you select a time period in the top graph you can see the top posters in the bottom graph - and if you select a poster in the bottom you can see when they posted in the top.

You can also see the source data if you right click - you can get the names of the threads, etc.

Thought you might like it, yes I am sad, but I wanted to learn tableau.

And before anyone gets worried, I am not hacking you and I do not work for Cambridge Analytica .

(I am also not particularly trying to prove anything - I am personally sceptical about paid posters)

If anyone has any requests, I might do some more playing with it. The data I downloaded included the thread title, poster and post time but not the content of the posts (atm)

Wow, summer, that's an amazing piece of work. I don't recognise/remember half those names - can anyone remind me if they are suspected shills?

Farage has just been silenced in EU parliament for referring to EU as the mafia.

International diplomacy brexit-style at its best

Doesn't that mean he has been part of the mafia for years? The logic of that man. It must be the booze and fags catching up with him....shame

Goodness summer, that makes it a bit too clear how much time I waste on here

It's been one week and they've already conceded that EU fom will continue. Hmph, not very good at this negotiations lark.

Hopefully by lunch they'll have confirmed staying in the single market.

Haha, I hope they aren't the cause because I love booze and the occasional fag too He also used the word "gangster" and, most offensively, kept referring to what "the British people voted for".

But it was almost worth it to see his mic disconnected mid-spew.

Wow too, summerlightning No privacy then, but is this the first international women's commentariat on key events. Pepys sorority for our times?

I was just about to post that FoM was going to continue, but was beaten to it. A nice spat about whether the National Trust and Cadbury's mention Easter or not, was such a good opportunity to bury bad news. Bad news for the hard-line Brexitters that is.

I couldn't help singing to myself 'the wheels on the bus are falling off, falling off, falling off' but I might be getting a bit ahead of events here.

Easter and the anti semitism in labour, is safely under the carpet again/ tacitly enabled. Sadly, this includes The Guardian.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/apr/05/steve-bells-if-a-kangaroo-court-for-ken-livingstone
It is a familiarly toxic combination.

The negotiations don't start until June at the earliest - I wonder what else we will have conceded by then? Perhaps we will have agreed to join Schengen and the Euro .

lala also we will have increased our 'fees' and agreed to sign up for another 40 years

Perhaps we will have agreed to join Schengen and the Euro

You can bet your life that the EU will assert the primacy of the Euro over sterling in any financial talks. Meaning the UKs trade - like it or not - will be linked to the Euro.

Wow Summer thanks! Really interesting.

The most amazing thing about that data is seeing I'm not the top poster! [Grin]

That makes me feel slightly less of a head case.

FOM to continue is perhaps surprise. EU have pretty much said no deal with out it. That is a positive sign if you think about it in those terms. A red line there would have meant no deal. Saying this means a deal is possible.

At this point you start to wonder where the red lines are though!

Has anyone posted Treesa's comments on FoM in the Barmy Arms? Just wondering...

FOM to continue is perhaps surprise

I'd suggest we hold our horses on that one ... have we not already decided there are no limits to the batshittery of Leavers and Theresa May ?

FOM could continue in the same way that the Torys are "fully committed to continuing to support the disabled."

I suspect the hard Brexiteers really are moronic enough to believe they can weasel agreements with the EU the same way they hoodwink the UK electorate.

I'd be more inclined to believe that Free movement of people from the EU to the UK could be extended after Brexit, Theresa May has suggested. will result in a 400-page document full of exclusions and limitations, and not being worthy of wiping my arse on. Then, when the EU undoubtedly reject it, they will be able to pull their Daily Mail sadface about "nasty Europe" rejecting our concessions. Which fits the Brexit delusional narrative that the UK is somehow graciously offering tidbits from a position of Imperial splendour.

But the mantra needs to continue: You broke it. You can fix it.

You broke it. You can fix it.

Refine that please to You Brexit, You Fixit.
Just that little more snappy, and snappy slogans win.

I was a bit shocked to see how much I was posting too, but glad that Red beat me in the posting stakes. Some of the others I had never heard of.

Freedom of movement will continue after March 2019 because the EU will not agree to a transitional agreement without it and because the alternative will be no deal at all.

I'd give at least an 80% likelihood of FOM being still in effect at the next election. I don't think the Tories are stupid enough to crash out without a deal, though I'd never say never. I think the risk is less than 20% though.

Interesting thoughts on France Misti. The bbc are covering it as 9 candidates with anti-status quo positions against Macron and Fillon defending the centre. They therefore see it as Le Pen solidifying her support amongst those who want change, but think Fillon did well in presenting an alternative vision to Macron.

Peregrina has already pointed out above how this will be spun, btw. It will come out in little stages, with lots of "fake news" distraction (like the ridiculous and mendacious Easter egg spat) used to cover it up.

The transition is now being spun as an 'implementation phase'. Is this George Orwell and Newspeak, or is it Alice in Wonderland and a word being what Humpty Dumpty chose it to mean?

Either way, both books are Fiction.