Westminstenders: And so it begins

[RedToothBrush]

Promises made that can not be kept.

We have already fallen at the first stumbling block: the desire for parallel talks on exit and future relationship that May wanted has been rejected. Not that this is a surprise seeing as we were told this.

This isn't two years of negotiations for a good deal. Forget any suggestions that it is. It's two years of damage limitation and domestic pr.

For both the UK and EU.

I do believe that May's attitude - which seemed to be more friendly in her speech and letter yesterday - has burnt all our bridges.

This talk of the world needing the EU's 'liberal democracy' isn't aimed at the EU though. Her use of the words that produced uproar in the HoC yesterday was deliberate. Why use it? It was always going to produce a reaction.

When May says she will have a consensus at home to achieve this goal one of two things must happen: to prove just how much we need the EU to make a political reversal possible at the expense of her head or to vilify the EU to a point that Remainers suddenly change their mind.

To get a good deal for the UK she can not satisfy her hard line Brexiteers. It is impossible purely because to do otherwise is like breaking the laws of physics. Trade is done mostly with who you are closest too. This is the inescapable truth. We are leaving the EU but not Europe as keeps being pointed out.

If we want to trade we have to accept EU regulations. If we do not, we do not trade. Rules we can now no longer influence by must obey.

We can not reduce immigration. We have had control of non-Eu immigration and that is not going down due to skills shortages. To combat this schools are getting less money.

In terms of sovereignty and British parliament we just gave that away. The 'Great' Repeal Act is a power grab by the executive. It seems to give the powers of the monarch to Mrs May and take them away from parliamentary scrutiny. At the same time we are forced to become beholden to Trump's America. A man who screws people for a living and has not a shred of honour.

Using security as our bargaining chip misses the obvious. If we do not cooperate we endanger Brits abroad and ourselves domestically. Are we really prepared to stop?

The opportunities of Brexit Britain are bleak. This will be normalised.

Good luck folks. We are gonna need it.

Ah, that Teutonic lack of humour

poorboy what would be better than the moderate taking back control is having the Tories and the Labour Party splitting up into two, a moderate version no a more 'extreme' version (far right and far left).
Then people would be able to CHOOSE what they are voting for instead fo hoping it will be moderate/far right or left.
And you are removing a lot of effort going into appeasing each side within the party.
My issue with it being that it's all politics behind the scene, something the public never hears about nor have any control over (therefore as undemocratic as it can be) BUT it still has some enormous effect on the policies chosen by the leader of the party.p and therefore on the country as a whole.
That's how you end up having the Tories formthe givernemt, people voting for manifesto that says 'we stay in the Eu' and then the same party handling coming out of the EU with a hard Brexit, that people hadn't been voting for in the GE.

Howabout. Nah just ignore him! After all he has zero experience of negotiating new treaties with powers far stringer than ours.....ooppps oh yes he has...and did he get what we wanted. Nope. Why is that I wonder?

Meanwhile the experience of the RW Tories is what?

Whilst I understand you are happy about Brexit given you are a Corbyn fan I don't understand the blind faith the the Tories.

James Matheson was of course a far better example of how we will now proceed in relation to China.

I was thinking about electoral cycles and FPTP etc. It seems to go:

Y1-5 Win, blame opposition for everything
Y6-10 win (slightly unexpectedly) try to blame the opposition for everything but with markedly less success except for their own supporters. Plus make some huge error with the permanent loss of some elements of their support.
Y11-15: Scrape through another election even more unexpectedly. Party in government finds that they're just laughed at when they try and blame their failings on the previous government;
Y16-20: mockery and failure.

20 years before we're trying to get back in?

poorboy I could say the same about all the born again Patten, Heseltine etc supporters. I suspect they are all Blair/Cameronites though and to me that is all the same thing. (I even tried to tell them they wouldn't like TM when I was supporting the Blonde Ambition ticket, but to no avail because they thought she was one of them.)

I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/mar/30/eu-brexit-european-union-brexiteers-boiled-egg-david-davis-liam-fox-boris-johnson-video

Shifty or what?

No I don't think that is the same at all. Many moderates in the Labour and Tory parties have always had some overlapping views stretching way way before Blair.

However, it is very very rare to come across a Corbynite that supports the Tories in any form - other than those I have met who want 'the revolution' to be nigh so the crappiest Tory government the better. Actually no even those wouldn't actually say it.

But maybe, just maybe, they see their future in a different type of connection.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/newsnight-crispin-blunt-saudi-arms_uk_57d2824de4b0d45ff8718eef

The shitsplosion is hitting the fan, and I fear it will only get worse.

May's letter and strategies (if that is the right term) set out in it has already gone down like a lead balloon in Brussels. It has succeeded only in triggering Article 50 without even a vestige of a credible exit strategy.

We are moving headlong towards a great mistake. Determined nonetheless to make that mistake.

Just reading about the Great Repeal Bill that has now been published.

Just what has Davis and the Department for Exiting the EU been doing for the last 9 months? don't answer that

The paper actually admits and is proud of the fact that it is only now starting the discussion with parliament about what is required

Just reading about the Great Repeal Bill that has now been published

I don't think the actual bill has been published has it? Still though they're obviously fast workers, managing two pages a month for the white paper...

Lurking, it's interesting that members of the Gell family switched sides when it wasn't going their way.

I wonder if that will happen yet.

Law and policy @Lawandpolicy
"There is no single figure for how much EU law already forms part of UK law."

(White Paper, para. 2.6)

They literally do not know.

Any (official or non-official) explanation as to why there is no draft Bill, only a White Paper?

There is also an "Annex A" but....(pause)...no "Annex B".

Wonder if something was taken out at short notice

Queries re white paper:

1. Why no draft Bill?

2. Will there be a draft Bill for consultation before actual Bill?

Have asked @DexEUgov.

Law and Policy
1. The lack of a draft Bill is worrying.
HMG/@DexEUgov have had 9 months to come up with something.
2. The white paper is not a bad document. There are some interesting ideas.
But it is a high-level discussion document.
3. The difficult questions will come with more detail. That is where there should be a serious consultation exercise.
4. If this ok-to-good if flimsy white paper is all the government has after 9 months, those 9 months have not been spent well.
/ends.

Carl Gardner
The white paper says old ECJ case law will bind UK courts. So they'll get higher legal status than European Court of Human Rights rulings.

Andrew Mawbry
@carlgardner @IanDunt you realise there are people reading that tweet who were not aware the two are different things. Gove, for example.

Faisal Islam
UK Government will "remove" the Charter of Fundamental Rights from UK law
.... but White Paper says "no plans to withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights" - not EU convention, Strasbourg not Lux

Xpres1self
@faisalislam Dominic Raab just implied data protection rights could be weakened to 'help' business

Jemme
@xprs1self @faisalislam You mean like the new US position that makes it easier for ISPs to sell customers' personal search histories etc???

prettybird, Davis has been making contingency plans for every possible eventuality.

He has said this a few times. Unfortunately, when asked about anything specific, he seems not to know or hasn't looked into it.

Davis has been making contingency plans

Is he going to emigrate like Farage?

I wonder how many wheels the Brexit bus had to start with ? Because they are falling off at an alarming rate ...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-david-davis-exact-same-benefits-promise-article-50-theresa-may-a7657426.html

David Davis has backpedalled on his claim that a Brexit deal can deliver the “exact same benefits” as EU membership, now admitting it was little more than an ambition.

The Brexit Secretary said he would “make no apology” for being ambitious, but accepted what Britain achieves in talks will be a matter for negotiations with the EU.

(contd).

Ah, a promise that was just a series of ambitions. I'm sure I've heard similar before. Will people ever learn?

Hey look, Cameron has crawled back from under his rock

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/30/david-cameron-i-was-right-brexit-referendum

David Cameron: I was right to hold Brexit referendum
Former prime minister says issue of EU membership ‘had been poisoning British politics for years’ but says cooperation on security should continue.

Charming.

Howabout Fat Pang was very popular in Hong Kong, though obviously not with the mainland. It was just window dressing of course , but compared with where they are now the respect he offered in the shape of democracy was appreciated, he was certainly more popular than the new leader 777 (seven is a homophone in Cantonese for a flaccid penis)

The thing about Mathewson' approach to China was that a. he had something to sell that they wanted (though it was only the high end of the market, 90% was grown in China. Sort of the Mulberry handbag of Opium, luxury branding is only a fraction of the market) b when he pursuaded the government to send in the gunboats the Chinese lost the fight through an incompetent government that did not listen to bad news or expert advice on what was required....

This time the roles are reversed.....

Former prime minister says issue of EU membership ‘had been poisoning British politics for years’

To be fair, he's right. (Although it was mainly the Tory party doing the poisoning).

And I am on record as having said we should have had a referendum back in 2010 when the pig-face-fucker actually promised one (we're starting to get the measure of these "promises" now). Simply because not holding one actually strengthened the Leave rhetoric.

but says cooperation on security should continue.

We're back to the stock answer: what the UK says or thinks is of much less relevance today than it was Monday. The only thing that is of any import now is what the UK can realistically do.

Law and Policy
Breaking: been informed there are no plans for a draft Great Repeal Bill for consultation.

There will be an "open discussion" instead.

Aka as no scrutiny. Shall we take bets on how long this position lasts before there is a change of heart?

politicalscrapbook.net/2017/03/fuked/#more-62902
“FUKED”: IRISH PAPER GIVES BREXIT VERDICT WITH WELL-PLACED CARTOON

Determined not to let Brexit affect relations with our closest allies, Theresa May has penned an earnest opinion piece for today’s edition of the Irish Times.

So the Irish Times are laughing at May....

The three arsewipes spot on there!