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Brexit

Westministenders: Its time to fire the starting gun. At our own heads.

985 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/03/2017 12:03

Its time for the suicide. The note will say simply, "The EU made us do it".

David Davies, says that despite May’s assertion that no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK, that actually we don’t know this as he hasn’t got round to quantifying the impact of no deal.

He still has no answers for anything apart from “I dunno” and “I’ll do it later”. I can’t wait for when the dog ate my homework excuse.

After 9 months. That’s how far we’ve got. Brexit negotiation skills will have 18 months (not 2 years as it’ll need to be ratified). We are still hiring people for the Brexit department. What about all these EU agencies that the UK will have to replicate and hire and train up in 2 years time?

I’m still waiting for Davies to tell me what all these potential benefits he keeps going on about are too. Benefits for who exactly? Ah yes we know the answer to this one too, even if its not being said. Its political elites and elites with lots of money who can consolidate power and enslave the population through debt and desperation. Goodie. Just what I’ve always wanted. As long as I can wave my Union Jack. Oh. Shit. Bugger.

Nicola Sturgeon, has been doing a good job of showing Brexiteers exactly what they look like to Remainers by holding up the mirror of irony to the Vampires of the 19th Century State. The sight of them tripping over themselves saying its irrational to hold a ‘blind vote’ and that the economic argument is flawed is hilarious. If you are not British.

Hammond has been forced to u-turn on NIC budget announcement as it was not in the spirit of the manifesto. What happened to the manifesto pledge to the protect interests in the Single Market. Lets be honest, the New Tory Manifesto read simply: “We’ll wing it and see what we can get away with”. I wonder how many people would vote for that.

Its Brexit at all costs. No matter what. We must keep the foreigners out. Even though Davis hasn’t done an assessment on the financial impact of migration. Just think about that for a second. Actually don’t because you might actually want to shoot yourself in the head.

At best the government are still relying on Game Theory as a basis for their negotiations and the EU are already going, “Er we don’t think so”.

Perhaps this is the intention of May’s tour to build consensus. She’s handing out guns and bullets to anyone who displays rational thought, to blow their own brains out.

May’s weakness is her manner and her chip on her shoulder for the law. Her own party are not immune to it. She seems to think trade deals are not done based on goodwill. May’s weakness is Britain’s folly.

Pass the blindfolds round, and get on your knees and await our own execution by our own hands.

Bang.

RIP The United Kingdom and Northern Ireland. I will remember you with nostalgic fondness but equally with bitterness and shame. Our finest hours are long since passed (and were tainted with the excesses of exploitation anyway) and we must accept this as part of the process of ‘accepting Brexit’.

Now its time for the empty hand to start being shown and the blame game to begin in earnest. The politics of hate have only just begun and the divorce has not started yet. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar are the kids we might not get custody of.

We’ll be blacking up again, running around groping women like Benny Hill and pushing people back into the closet as we hit the off switch before you know it. As well as having nice shiny new ID cards we’ll have to pay for the privilege of owning and carrying at all times, to prove we aren’t nasty illegal immigrants or those equally nasty legal ones clogging up our NHS (by working for it).

Don’t worry though. Uncle Donny will save us. If he doesn’t die suddenly after eating a bowl of Russia soup or have a fatal heart attack after accidentally falling out of a tenth story window.

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Peregrina · 16/03/2017 23:15

Six years? Is that how long realistically Theresa May thinks an EU agreement will take? Personally, I think she will be gone before then. Not many Prime Ministers last more than around five years - Thatcher and Blair were both exceptions. I think NS has well and truly got May's Government rattled. Furthermore, May is in a hole and keeps digging.

From the Telegraph article:
The Prime Minister will on Friday tell the Conservative Spring Forum in Cardiff that: “We are four nations, but at heart we are one people... and I will always fight to strengthen and sustain this precious, precious Union.”

IMO that is nonsense. We are most definitely not one people. Most English don't care two hoots about the other three nations, especially I would say N Ireland. Even the English themselves are not really one nation - I would say roughly 3 - North, South and West.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/03/2017 23:17

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

whatwouldrondo · 16/03/2017 23:25

Peregrina That is exactly the point I am making that moderates, who are mainly what I would call ethnically Catholic / Protestant /not religious i.e.not likely to be attending mass /church or guided by priests, or choosing schools as a result of results not faith (actually the driver for the exclusive faith school movement here) wanted NI in the UK and the EU because of the peace process and because they thought they were making progress. They are the majority as shown by referendum result. The extremes, be they for unionist or republican voted for Brexit. The argument that the birth rate is making NI more Catholic, therefore a united Ireland is inevitable assumes that young Catholics in NI want that. Perhaps someone should actually ask the young people they are assuming these attitudes in? They are not exactly taking the aspirations of young people in the UK into account .....

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2017 23:30

STUPID decision by a blindly stubborn politician.

If May allows an early Indy Ref 2, it'd probably be her best chance of winning.

In case contrast, after 6 years of being thwarted of their ref, plus having other Tory policies rammed down the throat of a Scotland that returned only 1 Tory, but 56 SNP MPs ..
and probably being in the toughest stage of Brexit, chaos, economic woes ...

The Scots could vote for Independence by 60 % !

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2017 23:43

ron Anyone wanting to go with the moderates now, to align with progressive values, might well consider the RoI and a United Ireland within the EU more attractive than the way England is going.

NI seems to have more religious wingnuts than the RoI.
Neither part of Ireland looks likely to allow abortion rights on the near future, but the RoI is much fridnlier wrt issues like gay rights than the DUP, which is still the dominant Unionist party.

Prominent DUP politicians have called homosexuality an "abomination" and even said it should be made illegal - bringing religion into politics.
Remember the old "Save Ulster from Sodomy" campaign ? Many hardline unionists still believe that shit.

The DUP also has links to far right organisations and murky US far right funding
The progressive unionists mostly left for the Alliance party years ago

whatwouldrondo · 17/03/2017 00:06

Bigchoc According to the moderates I know (mainly Catholic in an ethnic sense ) the ROI is not an obvious good alternative to the UK out of the EU for a whole host of reasons. It is a case of a rock and a hard place, much as it is for Scotland ( and London come to that except there is no rock) They had something in place that had greater promise, and was working, as a solution that worked for all. Quite clearly the reunification option is not going to work for the extremist unionists with the obvious risk

And yes the creationist interpretation is stil up there in the Giants causeway visitor centre but , fair to say it would have withered on the vine eventually without the oomph of the extremist agenda being rejuvenated ...

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2017 01:02

With Brexit posing huge financial problems for NI, the big reason to stay in the UK has evaporated.
Staying because of an implicit threat that some unionist fascists might turn to terror is every bit as bad as joining the RoI because of the pre-GFA threat by the IRA.

NI was formed after giving into the Black & Tan's atrocities
Time to stand up to unionists if need be, instead of always bricking it.

May's hard right nationlist England looks more oppressive than an RoI rapidly becoming less obviously Catholic and more progressive.
What has May - and her likely Tory successors as PM - to offer the young for the next 10 years ?
The opportunity to study, travel, work in the EU ?

Brexit is slow-fuse Semtex under the entire UK
Everything has changed and everything may go

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2017 01:03

Black & Tans'

mathanxiety · 17/03/2017 01:24

The Creationist narrative in NI and elsewhere is funded and promoted by fundamentalists in the US.

It found receptive ears and a mirror image in NI because of the long Calvinist tradition in protestantism there. Actually, the long Calvinist tradition was uprooted lock, stock and barrel along with the Ulster/Scots Irish from plantation Ulster and brought on emigrant ships to the American south, Appalachia, and mid Atlantic.

It doesn't hurt that the RC church has never been against evolution and considers it compatible with the Book of Genesis, etc., but Creationism in NI is an element of the fundamentalism that has always been a feature of NI religion.

whatwouldrondo · 17/03/2017 07:22

What has May - and her likely Tory successors as PM - to offer the young for the next 10 years ?
The opportunity to study, travel, work in the EU ?

Well, that is an issue in the rest of the UK but all the young people I know in Northern Ireland went out to the Post Office the day after the referendum to pick up an application form for an Irish passport, along with their parents, along with everyone I know under 60 in the U.K. who have the necessary heritage.

Reunification cannot happen without a referendum. It is simplistic to talk about the threat of extremism on either side carrying Northern Ireland back into civil war, determining the future direction. It is about respecting a hard won peace process and the real efforts made by moderates across the political spectrum to build a society out of the ruins of the troubles, and to highlight the moral redundancy on both ends of sectarian extremism. Of course zero chance of that from Mayhem's Westminster but I am not sure that people do have much more faith in Dublin. The light in all this is the will within the EU to protect the peace .

woman12345 · 17/03/2017 07:39

There's only one type of government that buys elections and forbids votes.

And they're not good to do business with, trust is often compromised.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/16/gchq-denies-wiretap-claim-trump-obama

whatwouldrondo · 17/03/2017 08:28

Has Martin Kettle been reading this thread?

It’s possible that May will triumph on all fronts. That outcome can’t be ruled out. For it to happen, however, the hard Brexit language of today and the dismissal of Sturgeon’s demands will have to turn out to be opening bids that conceal a much more pragmatic and consensual May than she has publicly revealed. Is that all part of the game plan? Perhaps. But there is no evidence for it yet.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/17/theresa-may-nicola-sturgeon?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

lalalonglegs · 17/03/2017 08:34

Oh dear, did anyone watch QT last night? The SNP's Joanna Cherry (who had to put up with David Davis on the select committee on Wednesday) was one of the guests and the audience were openly sneering at the idea of the Scottish having the temerity to call a referendum. It was painful - one woman in the audience said, all cocky, "So, if you've got your own government in Scotland, why are you sending a load of MPs to Westminster then?" Cherry had to explain that only some matters were devolved to Edinburgh and to have a say in, say, defence and, you know, Brexit, the Scots needed a presence in WM. Even Jacob Rees-Mogg came across as sane compared to the majority of the audience - or those shouting loudest - who were boorish and bullying. It was really horrible and a perfect recruiting propaganda for the SNP, I would think.

Peregrina · 17/03/2017 08:42

I made a mistake of commenting on a Huffington post facebook site. Boy oh boy, are the Brexiteers rattled! I don't know how they have time to comment, mind you. Now that they have almost got their way they ought to be rolling their sleeves up and getting stuck in with making this country Great again.

Meanwhile, has anyone seen this one, about the former colonies?

prettybird · 17/03/2017 08:53

Lala - don't go and have a look at the Scotsnet Indyref threads. They have a totally different impression......

One comment (fairly typical) about Joanna Cherry was "LOL at "cool calm and collected" she was like a gasping goldfish more than once" Confused

woman12345 · 17/03/2017 08:57

peregrina I honestly thought that article was going to be about Scotland and NI! Audacious move sending Johnson after what he called Africans.
And thanks for posting about the rape for tax credits, passing voteless yesterday. In normal times this would be unbelievable.

woman12345 · 17/03/2017 08:59

prettybird tories have activated the morning shift. It's indy ref bingo.

Figmentofmyimagination · 17/03/2017 09:00

bigchoc yes NI - where it's unlawful to refuse to bake a cake iced with the words 'support gay marriage', but lawful to ban gay couples from marrying.

Peregrina · 17/03/2017 09:05

trouble at t'mill in the Tory party over Hammond being hung out to dry. When will the moderate Tories 'grow a pair' and start rebelling?

woman12345 · 17/03/2017 09:12

Tory rebels:
^Tory MPs have confronted Education Secretary Justine Greening at a private meeting over a controversial new schools funding formula......
Around 20 backbenchers challenged the Cabinet minister with complaints that schools in their areas were cutting lessons and staff numbers and urged her to rethink the reform^.
www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mps-confront-education-secretary-justine-greening-in-school-funding-row-a3491191.html

prettybird · 17/03/2017 09:13

I read somewhere (so it might have been false news Wink) that the backers of the Unionists have already activated 100,000 paid trolls supporters to target social media against Indyref.

It would fit with what we've been talking about Trump, the alt right and manipulation of Brexit and other votes.

Although to be fair, many of those names I recognise from last time around.

RhuBarbarella · 17/03/2017 09:18

I read something about that too prettybird. Wasn't there something about the DUP and brexit spending and some donot who is now targeting Indiref.
Is there a TMGollem meme yet about her precious, precious....?

HashiAsLarry · 17/03/2017 09:26

Now that they have almost got their way they ought to be rolling their sleeves up and getting stuck in with making this country Great again.

Oh peregrina that's not for them to do. That's remain's job remember

whatwouldrondo · 17/03/2017 09:35

Peregrina I am enjoying the thought of Boris "piccaninny" Johnson flying the Imperial flag in Africa and being met with polite condescension. There are a lot more players in Africa now and whilst 5 to 10 years ago it looked as though China might, though entirely market driven and without strategy, be the new de facto colonialists investing billions in building shoddy infrastructure projects with an eye on meeting it's own need for commodities and agricultural produce other Asian countries like India are also now investing and African governments are also getting better at negotiating beneficial deals. We do already trade with Africa, in fact the value of existing trade and investment is greater than China without the aid of Brexit Boris flying in in the manner of Eva Peron's rainbow tour of Europe and just as misjudged but under the flag of Empire.

boredofbrexit · 17/03/2017 09:59

Prettybird the comments section of The Scotsman pretty much mirrors the Scotsnets comments too I notice.