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Brexit

Westministenders: Its time to fire the starting gun. At our own heads.

985 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/03/2017 12:03

Its time for the suicide. The note will say simply, "The EU made us do it".

David Davies, says that despite May’s assertion that no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK, that actually we don’t know this as he hasn’t got round to quantifying the impact of no deal.

He still has no answers for anything apart from “I dunno” and “I’ll do it later”. I can’t wait for when the dog ate my homework excuse.

After 9 months. That’s how far we’ve got. Brexit negotiation skills will have 18 months (not 2 years as it’ll need to be ratified). We are still hiring people for the Brexit department. What about all these EU agencies that the UK will have to replicate and hire and train up in 2 years time?

I’m still waiting for Davies to tell me what all these potential benefits he keeps going on about are too. Benefits for who exactly? Ah yes we know the answer to this one too, even if its not being said. Its political elites and elites with lots of money who can consolidate power and enslave the population through debt and desperation. Goodie. Just what I’ve always wanted. As long as I can wave my Union Jack. Oh. Shit. Bugger.

Nicola Sturgeon, has been doing a good job of showing Brexiteers exactly what they look like to Remainers by holding up the mirror of irony to the Vampires of the 19th Century State. The sight of them tripping over themselves saying its irrational to hold a ‘blind vote’ and that the economic argument is flawed is hilarious. If you are not British.

Hammond has been forced to u-turn on NIC budget announcement as it was not in the spirit of the manifesto. What happened to the manifesto pledge to the protect interests in the Single Market. Lets be honest, the New Tory Manifesto read simply: “We’ll wing it and see what we can get away with”. I wonder how many people would vote for that.

Its Brexit at all costs. No matter what. We must keep the foreigners out. Even though Davis hasn’t done an assessment on the financial impact of migration. Just think about that for a second. Actually don’t because you might actually want to shoot yourself in the head.

At best the government are still relying on Game Theory as a basis for their negotiations and the EU are already going, “Er we don’t think so”.

Perhaps this is the intention of May’s tour to build consensus. She’s handing out guns and bullets to anyone who displays rational thought, to blow their own brains out.

May’s weakness is her manner and her chip on her shoulder for the law. Her own party are not immune to it. She seems to think trade deals are not done based on goodwill. May’s weakness is Britain’s folly.

Pass the blindfolds round, and get on your knees and await our own execution by our own hands.

Bang.

RIP The United Kingdom and Northern Ireland. I will remember you with nostalgic fondness but equally with bitterness and shame. Our finest hours are long since passed (and were tainted with the excesses of exploitation anyway) and we must accept this as part of the process of ‘accepting Brexit’.

Now its time for the empty hand to start being shown and the blame game to begin in earnest. The politics of hate have only just begun and the divorce has not started yet. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar are the kids we might not get custody of.

We’ll be blacking up again, running around groping women like Benny Hill and pushing people back into the closet as we hit the off switch before you know it. As well as having nice shiny new ID cards we’ll have to pay for the privilege of owning and carrying at all times, to prove we aren’t nasty illegal immigrants or those equally nasty legal ones clogging up our NHS (by working for it).

Don’t worry though. Uncle Donny will save us. If he doesn’t die suddenly after eating a bowl of Russia soup or have a fatal heart attack after accidentally falling out of a tenth story window.

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Mistigri · 16/03/2017 15:58

I think we'll go onto an interim EEA/EFTA deal while they thrash out an FTA - which won't be ready before mid 2020s.

Or longer. This is pretty much what I think. Remember that what we get is basically what the EU decides to give, though. And once a transitional deal is agreed, the UK faces the same problem all over again: the clock is ticking and they will need the agreement of 27 countries and a number of regional parliaments for any deal, which must be conspicuously worse than staying put. Not simple. At some point, the government of the day will finally decide that brexit needs to be stamped on and then nudged under the sofa to die, while shouting "look! Squirrel!" at whatever has become the pressing issue of 2027.

Mistigri · 16/03/2017 16:00

It's quite possible of course that the most stalwart brexiloons in Parliament will have shuffled off this mortal coil by the time the transitional agreement ends. As will many leave voters.

Peregrina · 16/03/2017 16:02

Beyond this at the extreme end, this is how to start violent protests against your government for oppression.

I don't see this as extreme - the poll tax riots started in Scotland, which led onto Maggie Thatcher being brought down, when she seemed invincible, and now 30 years on have led to SNP now having all bar 3 seats in Westminster.

I just don't think Theresa May realises what a mess she has got herself into - it's everyone else out of step but her, in her book. Since she won't listen, people advising caution, can't warn her.

LurkingHusband · 16/03/2017 16:03

If Theresa May was a wise bunny

Ah, I'm beginning to see the flaw in this plan (after Blackadder ...)

if Mrs May were wise, she would have established an spread of advice and advisors, and proceeded in a clear transparent fashion.

Many, many years ago, I read that the Chinese people developed a belief that the British were deeply expert in the art of Feng Shui. This belief arose because the British were so spectacularly insensitive in putting up buildings and roads that the Chinese reasoned they had to know what they were doing was so bad.

I am starting to believe something similar about Theresa May. No one could be this accidentally incompetent, surely ?

Peregrina · 16/03/2017 16:04

Brexitloons shuffling off their mortal coil? Sadly people like Deadwood Redwood could have another 20 years ahead of them.

LurkingHusband · 16/03/2017 16:06

Unless I am unique (well, I am, but that's another story Grin) there must be other people in England who - despite an antipathy towards Scottish independence - are completely supportive of their desire (and the reasoning behind it) for IndyRef 2 ?

Mistigri · 16/03/2017 16:06

choc no idea about the commies (don't they vote Melenchon? Some will go Le Pen in round 2 but not many) but the NF is still a profoundly antisemitic party - they just had to suspend a regional MP for holocaust denial, and MLP has said that she will not allow French Israelis to maintain dual citizenship.

edition.cnn.com/2017/03/16/europe/france-election-national-front-holocaust/

LurkingHusband · 16/03/2017 16:07

Brexitloons shuffling off their mortal coil? Sadly people like Deadwood Redwood could have another 20 years ahead of them.

Well, as I said recently, we've already lost and gained 400,000 voters.

Anyway, if 2016 taught us nothing else, it's that when the old man with the telescope points the finger ... it's time to go. Whoever you are.

woman12345 · 16/03/2017 16:08

Thank you misti, for your reply, fingers and toes crossed.

Conservative Election Dodginess number two

"The Democratic Unionists have faced calls to disclose more details about their relationship with a pro-Union group that bankrolled their £425,000 Brexit campaign.

Political rivals have demanded answers after the DUP revealed its main donor was a little-known Great Britain-based group of business figures called the Constitutional Research Council (CRC)".

sputniknews.com/europe/201702271051079511-saudi-brexit-funding-leave/
This is pretty interesting on very secretive conservative organisation involved in Leave funding^

I can't verify it, and the CRC has no web site, but several reputable newspapers allude to CRC.

@IndyLassie
Constitutional Research Council, financiers of war chest to fight #indyref2 campaign, headed up by Richard Cook former chair of @ScotTories.

www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/02/23/news/dup-pledges-to-reveal-brexit-advert-donor-s-identity-941466/.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-under-pressure-over-funding-behind-brexit-campaign-35478882.html

So math a couple more funders :
Richard Cook and the Constitutional Research Council.

Peregrina · 16/03/2017 16:10

Do people agree with this comment from a GAPonsoby from the Guardian website:
May has implicitly conceded indyref2 is now certain. Her only card now is the delay. She's played into Sturgeon’s hands but doesn't know it.

RedToothBrush · 16/03/2017 16:13

Yes if.

May's weakness is her lack of collective wisdom and lack of understanding of the role of law. Her single mindedness is effective, but also leaves her vulnerable.

If someone could get behind that.

If is such a big word for two letters isn't it?

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RedToothBrush · 16/03/2017 16:16

By the way polling says at the moment Scottish people do NOT back independence. At the same time polling also says that if Scottish Parliament asks for a referendum, Westminster should allow it.

Square the circle.

Peregina, I think that comment is not far from the mark at all.

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woman12345 · 16/03/2017 16:18

the poll tax riots started in Scotland

They didn't Peregrina , the poll tax was forced on the Scots and the Labour party did nothing. When eventually it was forced on the English, local anti poll tax groups formed and organised passive resistance, non payment and support for those who were taken to court for non payment.

On the day of the big march in London, peaceful sunny and full of family participants, on reaching Trafalgar square, we were simply attacked by police in riot vans and tooled up. That no one was killed was a miracle.
It wasn't a riot it was an act of war, presumably on Thatcher's command.

It helped unseat her as it played terribly in US, which up till then had a respect for suffrage. And Meyer, and right wingers and her and their idiotic stance on the EU.

RedToothBrush · 16/03/2017 16:18

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/03/denying-nicola-sturgeon-referendum-theresa-may-gambling-good-brexit-deal
In denying Nicola Sturgeon a referendum, Theresa May is gambling on a good Brexit deal

What do we think the chances of that are? What happens if May loses that gamble?

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NinonDeLanclos · 16/03/2017 16:21

Remember that what we get is basically what the EU decides to give, though

As Davis has essentially finally admitted.

I've said before that May won't go for a permanent EEA/EFTA deal now, but that we have a chance of staying on it by default by a change of government in 2025.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2017 16:23

There seems a genuine difference between the far right populist parties of the E27 compared to those of the US and UK:

E27 populist parties are genuinely populist;
they pursue policies that really do help workers

  • BUT only those workers of the right color and ethnicity. Muslims need not apply.

They’re offering a "herrenvolk" welfare state.
Poland's Law and Justice has raised minimum wages and reduced the retirement age;
afaik, France’s Front National promise the same.

The populist parties in France, Netherlands, Denmark seem to have liberal social views wrt feminism, abortion, gay rights. Also supportive of Jews.

In contrast:

UKIP has far more traditional hard right elements still

  • the influence from its powerful blue UKIP wing, consisting of those wingnuts who fell off the edge of the Tory rightwing
  • and red UKIP apepaling to former BNP voters, who are anti-semitic.
  • socially very illiberal, mostly against feminism and gay rights
  • they also want a welfare state for their own kind - white Brits - but unlike the E27, they also demonise "scroungers" of any colour
I think "their own kind" is anyone who isn't poor. So, welfare for the uoper wc & lower mc only ?

Trump isn’t a real populist, he just plays one on reality TV.
When it comes to substance, he’s pro-elite all the way.

To keep the worst elements of his core support happy, he has brought the alt right & the white supremacists into his administration, given them power
He panders to the religious right wrt abortion & gay rights.
He wants to dismantle the already threadbare welfare safety net of the US.

RedToothBrush · 16/03/2017 16:24

The DUP are pitching for direct rule by the look of this:
www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/03/return-direct-rule-northern-ireland-inevitable-says-dups-sammy-wilson

This would be a gift to May. It would also not go down too well in NI - even with many moderate unionists I would expect.

It was said a long time ago that the devolution acts were incompatible with Brexit and would need revisiting. May has to walk the minefield...

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Peregrina · 16/03/2017 16:25

OK woman, I stand corrected, I was going from memory, which is not always correct. I certainly think that Thatcher imposing the Poll Tax on the Scots, as a trial run, was the beginnings of the present situation.

So we add that to Orgreave and the Battle of the Beanfield as unprovoked attacks on demonstrators?

HashiAsLarry · 16/03/2017 16:26

Unless I am unique (well, I am, but that's another story grin) there must be other people in England who - despite an antipathy towards Scottish independence - are completely supportive of their desire (and the reasoning behind it) for IndyRef 2 ?
Nope, sadly not unique in this case, I'm with you too. I'd prefer to stay united, but I don't want to drag people off a cliff edge if there's a way they can avoid it.

LurkingHusband · 16/03/2017 16:28

It wasn't a riot it was an act of war, presumably on Thatcher's command.

Ironically, Mrs Thatcher was actually vehemently - one could say pathologically - opposed to having the army on the streets on the mainland. (Obviously she didn't give two hoots about NI).

After the Iranian embassy siege, a close family friend with special skills was part of a drive to develop a civilian response to such incidents in future. They met Mrs T and she was emphatic that troops on the streets in peacetime was "not British".

(Given the history of such things, she was probably right. But then who has ever heard of Peterloo, these days ?).

That said, the police these days are indistinguishable from a paramilitary force anyway. And they have the added advantage of immunity from prosecution for anything - unlike soldiers.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2017 16:30

Misti I just saw what you posted re Front National & anti-semitism
I read that she booted out the Holocaust deniers and my French colleagues think she is wooing the Jewish vote.
Oh well, maybe work in progress

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2017 16:31

Surely even the DUP would not voluntarily be directly ruled by May & the dunces ? Confused

lalalonglegs · 16/03/2017 16:33

I can't believe (well, I can) that the DUP would prefer direct rule from Westminster by people who would struggle to find NI on a map rather than ditch Arlene - who I will charitably describe as having compromised her reputation - and try to bang out a deal with SF. Have these politicians no pride? Or are they just unable to accept that they woefully misread their electorate when they jumped on the Brexit bandwagon with such zeal?

RedToothBrush · 16/03/2017 16:33

Siraj Datoo‏*@dats* 13 minutes ago
The government literally just published a "Plan for Britain" website and it's already broken www.planforbritain.gov.uk

.......

.............

Satire.

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RedToothBrush · 16/03/2017 16:35

Peregina, I still believe there is a reason the government are running a mile from an Orgreave inquiry.

Its not because of what happened there.

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