Westministenders: Boris and God Knows what next. (I'm all out of ideas!)

[RedToothBrush]

Still a week until Stoke and Copeland. (Labour Hold/Con Gain unless something strange happens) QT is from Stoke next week.

A50 hits the Lords next week. Melania is being lined up to do something for the women. (God help us all).

Will UKIP survive? Will Nuttall survive? Will Labour survive? Will Trump survive? Will CNN survive? Will the Lords survive? Will Theresa May survive a class room of children?

All these questions and more

I get that Patty, but I disagree. I do trust Tony Blair on Brexit. I think he is genuinely motivated by a desire to stop Brexit because he believes it would harm the country. I also think he is one of the few people who might be capable of negotiating effectively with both the country and the EU to get us out of this mess.

During the War Churchill did all the stuff on the International stage - meanwhile Clem Attlee as Deputy PM did the domestic legislation. Things like laying the groundwork for the Welfare State,

Which I seem to recall Hitler was a big fan of ...

Hitler, I believe, admired the British, and it was something of a blow to him when we declared war on him. His real interest lay in the East, for which we should be grateful, because the war on the eastern front shifted the focus away from the UK.

According to some sources Hitler didn't actually believe the British would declare war on him. Being the same racial stock.

Blair is a good wingman just not a good frontman.

I don't think the population would object to him being on the squad as much as they would his being team leader.

He and Mandelson - who was EU trade commissioner - have experience that no-one else in the current government bar Ken Clarke really has.

According to some sources Hitler didn't actually believe the British would declare war on him.

And he'd met the Duke of Windsor ...

Well now everyone's declared their position of loathing - or not - Tony Blair, can we forget party politics and actually look at what the man is saying?

"All I'm saying is a very, very simple thing, that this is the beginning of the debate - that if a significant part of that 52% show real change of mind, however you measure it, we should have the opportunity to reconsider this decision.
"Whether you do it through another referendum or another method, that's a second order question.
"But this issue is the single most important decision this country has taken since the Second World War and debate can't now be shut down about it."

I think that the Hard Right has done a very good job in picking apart liberal leaders and values.

I still struggle to understand what "Crooked Hilary" did wrong in any substantial sense. She was less than perfect in the way she saved and sent emails but this has been equated with being a criminal and people have believed it.

Trumps alleged misdemeanours are so much greater and yet appear (so far at least) to be overlooked by his supporters. Where is our sense of perspective?

Likewise, in our own country, where is our sense of perspective? Why this desire for perfection on all fronts before you can be a liberal leader? Why the higher (and impossible) standards for liberals?

He and Mandelson - who was EU trade commissioner - have experience that no-one else in the current government bar Ken Clarke really has.

If May had some common sense she would realise that she needed to put party politics to one side and draft in people with experience like that. So what does she do? Promotes the biggest bunch of incompetents ever Fox, Davis, Leasdom, Johnson (who wouldn't actually be incompetent if he could be bothered to put his mind to it.)

I still struggle to understand what "Crooked Hilary" did wrong in any substantial sense.

You answer your own question with your next word ...

She

It's worth bearing in mind that - language included - the US cannot be mapped directly onto the UK culturally without some bits not lining up. They are decades behind us in some areas in some areas (if that makes sense).

Gloria - I'd love to see a frontline team of: Tony Blair, Ken Clarke, Nick Clegg. Three senior respected politicians, one from each of the parties, all of whom believe passionately in this country's future within the EU.

A strong supporting business focussed team would be good, perhaps led by Richard Branson.

Gloria and Stripey I got a feeling there's a team in place.

The trolls are earning good money today on Blair, elsewhere and on Trump supporting campaigns.

Think they're worried.

But for many people, the core of the immigration question – and one which I fully accept is a substantial issue – is immigration from non-European countries especially when from different cultures in which assimilation and potential security threats can be an issue.

So this is an acknowledgement that for many who voted Brexit, it was a racist vote, which had absolutely nothing to do with the EU. It also acknowledges that terrorism in this country has been home grown.

fedtrust.co.uk/how-long-will-parliament-ignore-the-48/

I especially agreed with this bit!

"In her White Paper on leaving the European Union, Mrs. May claimed to rely on the “strength and support of 65 million people willing us to make it happen.” Views may differ as to whether such sub-messianic rhetoric is in a democracy sinister or simply absurd. In any case, it bears no relationship to reality. The vast majority of those voters on 23rd June who wished to remain in the European Union are very far from supporting Mrs. May in her attempt to “make Brexit happen.” They are entirely unreconciled to what many of them regard as the outcome of a dishonest referendum campaign, called and fought simply in the interests of the Conservative Party and won by a narrow majority comprising only 37% of those entitled to vote. They are horrified by what they regard as the unrepresentative spinelessness of Parliamentarians who have allowed themselves, with few honourable exceptions, to be cowed into accepting without amendment a Bill allowing Mrs. May to trigger Article 50. It is wishful thinking on the part of the leaders of the Conservative and Labour parties to imagine that they can indefinitely ignore such a broad and motivated swathe of British public opinion. If Mrs. May’s government is still in power two years after the Article 50 notification takes place, Britain will leave the European Union, contrary to the wishes of the overwhelming majority of Parliamentarians. This is much more brutal an overriding of Parliamentary sovereignty than anything perpetrated by forty years of membership in the European Union."

Seriously morning?!

Tony Blair tries to frame the immigration issue to non-EU immigrants being the 'real problem' that Brexiters have and you think that's just peachy?

You are seriously that convinced that it is the country of origin that matters to people who wanted the UK to be able to control its own migration levels?

So, back to the 'racist leaver' then?

Fucking hysterical.

You are seriously that convinced that it is the country of origin that matters to people who wanted the UK to be able to control its own migration levels?

Sadly, yes, there are substantial numbers of racists in this country. This does not say that 'All Leavers are Racists' but I would be prepared to say that virtually all racists jumped onto the Leave bandwagon.

If you'd spent time on tabloid websites after Brexit and counted the vast numbers of people who thought they'd voted to keep Muslims out, you might see his point.

I think people object to immigration in general and European immigration is the one aspect they were given the option to do anything about.

I'd say the general population or perhaps I mean the UKIP population is far more antiMuslim than it is antiEuropean.

But it must be acknowledged that Blair's policies fostered terrorism.

Meanwhile in France a personable, non partisan and relatively easy on the eye maverick is 25 points ahead of a racist anti semitic fascist.
www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/17/emmanuel-macron-the-french-outsider-president
And I've always like the French.

So all the countless interviews, polls, focus groups, analysis etc where it has consistently been asserted by myriad Leave voters that it was the overwhelming influx of EU migrant workers (which successive govts failed to support this with increased infrastructure and services etc), and NOT 'the foreigners' in general - they are all a figment of the collective imagination?

So all the countless interviews, polls, focus groups, analysis etc

There are plenty of interviews with people telling us how they want to kick the Muslims out. Consider also Farage's poster - which had absolutely nothing to do with EU immigration. Don't tell me he didn't know which constituency he was appealing to. He may be odious but he is not stupid.

Many and probably most Leave voters are not racist.

But the uncomfortable truth is almost certainly that racists will have voted Leave rather than Remain.

And even an more uncomfortable truth is that Leave would not have won without the racists.