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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris and God Knows what next. (I'm all out of ideas!)

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2017 23:56

Still a week until Stoke and Copeland. (Labour Hold/Con Gain unless something strange happens) QT is from Stoke next week.

A50 hits the Lords next week. Melania is being lined up to do something for the women. (God help us all).

Will UKIP survive? Will Nuttall survive? Will Labour survive? Will Trump survive? Will CNN survive? Will the Lords survive? Will Theresa May survive a class room of children?

All these questions and more

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Thread gallery
23
boredofbrexit · 22/02/2017 14:37

HPFA That is a misquote. Slack or cheap but neither admirable.

LurkingHusband · 22/02/2017 14:40

Communism has generally been regarded as a sub-type of socialism, so it's perfectly reasonable to regard USSR as both socialist and communist without contradiction.

Communism was defined in the Communist Manifesto.

The take-home fact, which nearly everyone who hasn't read it (and most who have) misses, is that communism - thusly defined - can only work if the entire world is communist. It can't/won't work if you "allow" non-communist countries to exist. As they will simply undermine the communist ones.

Thus, the USSRs stated aim was to convert the rest if the world to communism. By fair means or foul. It's why the USSR meddled so much around the world in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. Of course in doing so, they gave "the West" (in the shape of the US) n excuse to counter-meddle. With the various degrees of mess in Africa, South America, the Middle East and Pacific states being the legacy of that era.

Memory dims now, but I recall the concept of the dialectic, and the "One step back to take two steps forward" philosophy which decreed that history went feudalism->capitalism->socialism->communism.

howabout · 22/02/2017 14:43

When I was listening to Owen Jones advocating free childcare for all which would effectively mandate outsourcing all childcare to the State yesterday it did very much sound like the tyranny of the Left.

The very basis of socialism -taking from each according to ability and giving according to need is authoritarian. On a benefits bashing thread it is usually the people lower down the pecking order who want to race to the bottom. The current CB thread is a case in point.

LurkingHusband · 22/02/2017 14:45

Incidentally, anyone interested in one view of the rise of Hitler could do a lot worse than

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01kkxvd/episodes/guide

howabout · 22/02/2017 14:47

whatwouldron if you look back at my previous posts you will see that I am no fan of current HO policy. I very much feel non-EU migrants were thrown under the bus to protect FoM. It is all to the good that Brexit is shining a light on this imho.

NinonDeLanclos · 22/02/2017 14:49

Good quality sources are preferable no?

RedToothBrush · 22/02/2017 14:51

Just watched the Nazi: A Warning from History.

What is striking in episode 2 is how Hitler didn't have an overall plan. The plan was made by sucking up to him, and giving to him to sign off as ideas.

The people were controlled by others. Over a million were served by 28 gestapo officers, but the people grassed up people who were different. And then didn't fight back when they did realise things were wrong, because everyone else around them were still going Heil Hitler and they were too afraid to challenge that. So it became a runaway train.

Anyway, what I came to post about was actually this:
www.itv.com/news/border/2017-02-22/copeland-a-by-election-which-has-further-damaged-peoples-faith-in-politics/
Copeland: A by-election which has further damaged people’s faith in politics

Its a superb article. Once again, like the guardian video.

Nice to see that there are a couple of the media covering what I do see as the real issue. Its back to local issues and needing local champions, who can actually do something and make a change somehow.

And then there is this article about a focus group of 2015 Labour Voters

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/22/labour-is-clapped-out-banger-on-bricks-according-to-stoke-focus-group?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Labour is clapped-out banger on bricks, according to Stoke focus group
Only three out of 10 Stoke Central residents who voted Labour in 2015 told focus group they would definitely do so again this week

Asked to draw a car that summed up the Labour party, the group produced sketches of clapped-out old bangers, variously on bricks, or in one case with a steering wheel at each end “because they don’t know which way they’re going”.

The Tory party was likened to a Rolls-Royce or limousine, with the passengers drinking champagne and “mowing down the poor”.

The drawings of vehicles that represented Ukip all included either the St George’s Cross or the union flag – and in one case a union flag on top of a swastika “because I’m not sure what to think of them”.

One group drew a tank. “It’s a loud and brash killing machine,” said one man. “Hopefully it gets some results by being a bit more aggressive and doing what the people want and fighting for the people

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Kaija · 22/02/2017 15:23

Really struggling with the concept of free childcare being an example of totalitarianism.

LurkingHusband · 22/02/2017 15:25

Just watched the Nazi: A Warning from History.

Another striking fact was how Hitler ruled by giving different subordinates similar/identical verbal orders, and then letting them scrap it out to please him - which meant a natural selection in the ruthlessness (if not efficacy) of his underlings.

One wonders how much Davies, Fox and Johnsons briefs overlap ....

LurkingHusband · 22/02/2017 15:27

Really struggling with the concept of free childcare being an example of totalitarianism

It's not "free" though, is it ? It's paid for by threatening to jail people if they don't contribute to it. (As indeed is anything paid for by taxation).

Of course, if you don't pay taxes ....

lalalonglegs · 22/02/2017 15:35

LH : according to a friend who used to work there, that's what they do to staff at the Daily Mail too Smile.

Kaija · 22/02/2017 15:35

Good point, lurking. I guess if you're sitting far enough to the right all taxation and all public services look totalitarian.

woman12345 · 22/02/2017 15:36
Grin
RedToothBrush · 22/02/2017 15:37

politicalscrapbook.net/2017/02/nigel-fararage-reported-to-the-police-over-election-spending-during-his-failed-bid-to-be-an-mp/
Nigel Fararage reported to the police over election spending during his failed bid to be an MP

By the same token, what happened to the investigation about the Tory expenses in 2015? That just disappeared.

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boredofbrexit · 22/02/2017 15:38

Lovely article by Brendan Cox in todays Telegraph.

woman12345 · 22/02/2017 15:40

We will need EU migrants for years, admits Davis
www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/we-will-need-eu-migrants-for-years-admits-davis/ar-AAncHVo?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout
Presume this isn't a problem as brexit wasn't about race.Grin

LurkingHusband · 22/02/2017 15:41

By the same token, what happened to the investigation about the Tory expenses in 2015? That just disappeared

Although, given the choice I'd rather the Tories disappeared and the investigation remained ....

RedToothBrush · 22/02/2017 15:42

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/tory-mp-compares-national-schools-funding-formula-poll-tax
Tory MP compares national schools' funding formula to the poll tax

Tory MP revolt on school funding?

Get the popcorn ready on that one...

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woman12345 · 22/02/2017 15:43

www.theguardian.com/law/2017/feb/22/supreme-court-backs-minimum-income-rule-for-non-european-spouses

Lots of jobs available at detention camps.

whatwouldrondo · 22/02/2017 15:49

howabout However it does illustrate the naivety of people who voted for Brexit thinking that it would bring about fairness in immigration policy when in fact it was quite clear it was going to extend the unfairness to all. It was the same naivety that led them to vote for Brexit as a protest because "it could not get worse" when all the signals were there that the government were already making things worse and were always going to make sure that the costs of Brexit land anywhere but on those actually able to afford it, and in the process alienate those with the skills and ability to actually deliver some sort of competitive advantage in global markets after the carnage of all that has helped us to succeed over the last forty years.

whatwouldrondo · 22/02/2017 15:52

I am certainly hearing of a lot of parents revolting as they realise the impact of these cuts on schools......

Motheroffourdragons · 22/02/2017 15:53

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

NotDavidTennant · 22/02/2017 15:56

Thus, the USSRs stated aim was to convert the rest if the world to communism. By fair means or foul.

An aim that they give up fairly quickly once Lenin snuffed it. "Socialism in one country" was one of Stalin's main policy platforms.

It's why the USSR meddled so much around the world in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s.

Mostly they meddled for the same reason the US did: geopolitical influence. Once the original revolutionary generation died or were exiled the USSR never paid much more than lip service to the idea of spreading world revolution.

whatwouldrondo · 22/02/2017 16:01

As an interesting aside I witnessed last night the celebrations of the change of fortune that has come over American pissed up wankers bankers. All of a sudden their share options etc which looked pretty sick are looking very rosy and they are busy cashing in. There seems to be a marked lack of concern about what their sudden good fortune actually means in terms of America as a whole, whether it is going to be "great" or fucked.......

RedAndYellowStripe · 22/02/2017 16:02

theconversation.com/the-shape-of-brexit-is-probably-already-written-in-a-60-year-old-document-73403?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1487764940
I quite like that idea of the eu-uk in reverting back to the Rome treaty. It would look like what the uk is always wanting (commercial agreement) but still in line with the eu ethos (as this what it sprung from).
A light at the end of the tunnel?