Westministenders: Boris and God Knows what next. (I'm all out of ideas!)

[RedToothBrush]

Still a week until Stoke and Copeland. (Labour Hold/Con Gain unless something strange happens) QT is from Stoke next week.

A50 hits the Lords next week. Melania is being lined up to do something for the women. (God help us all).

Will UKIP survive? Will Nuttall survive? Will Labour survive? Will Trump survive? Will CNN survive? Will the Lords survive? Will Theresa May survive a class room of children?

All these questions and more

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/20/identity-trap-freedom-cost-diane-abbott-gender-race?CMP=share_btn_tw
We’re doomed by the identity trap, damned when we try to escape

Diane Abbott used as the example. But equally applies to class.

It about putting people back into nice little boxes with labels for the people who can't cope with out them. It makes those people feel safe.

The box with Muslim on, is indistinguishable from the one marked terrorist.

Its about enforcing conformity.

I don't do conformity. My family never have.

lico is right and it's worse for people like me who are self employed.
Because it's not just a P60 yu need to find (thatnwould easy enough), there are 3 pages of documents you are supposed to provide for all 5+ years yu are applying for.
All from proof that you are trading, accounts, accountant letter (not all self employed people have a accountant), etc etc. All very easy if you are a big ish company renting premises and so on. Not so good as a small self employed person working from home, not using an accountant and relying on word of mouth to get business (I know a few of my colleagues who are working exactely like this).

whatwouowd

And YY about pensions.
Atm my worst scenario is seeing my family splitting, me back to my 'home country' (note I have spent more time here than said home country in my entire life), DH and the dcs here, little possibility for coming over due to restriction in visa for hols and no pensions at all.
At nearly 50yo once the uk will be really out of the eu, this will be fun...

And the worst thing is that I do not think this is a catastrophic view of what can happen.
Catastrophic would incl xenophobic violence towards me and the dcs and so on....

As an outsider, I have never seen a country where 'staying in your place' is as pronounced as England (I won't be talking about Scotland or NI as I have no idea TBH and I believe they have separate culture to the English)

It's the 'NOT looking above your station' but also looking down at people who want to 'better themsleves'.
It's the whole system in place in the country, the different words used by different class of people etc etc.
It's comments about how KM will never be a royal because Of HR background (i.e. What did her grand parents did for a living...)

And yes, I also had come to the conclusion, even before the referendum, that England is actually a very racist place underneath a coating of openness.
Very sad (esp because there are some people who aren't like this- those are also the ones who cannot believe some the things I have seen) but true.

And then there's those like me who were Sahm's so that after 19 years, British husband, British children, I do not qualify for permanent residence.

I am getting used to the idea of moving "home" as well. My dc would come with me as would dh - hoping that the EU would keep the idea of individual EU citizenship for those Brits who want it.

I expect no kindness from the UK but I would hope that my home country would be helpful should I find myself in this position.

It wasn't even a push to getting everyone into university - the plan was also for vocational education. That didn't happen - vocational education has become synonymous with non-academic, instead of being as it should be, something which requires ability and skill. It would be better to rename it Trade education and then we would know where we were.

The university push was how it manifested though, unfortunately.

I agree with you that a rebrand is reqd - vocational education is a byword for 'not good enough' and it's the exact opposite.

Re the 'ideas above station', yes it exists, but this is something that needs to be tackled & reinforced from a very young age - by secondary school it's often too late.

I was very lucky that, even though thoroughly working class, both my parents actively encouraged me & my sister to push outside the 'norm' - the biggest push was being 'allowed' by the school to do tech studies & physics as a) I was a girl, and b) 'surely combined science would be more easy to pass?'
I saw amongst most of my friends the reinforcement not necessarily from family but from the teachers - the kids from the 'good' areas were encouraged & treated better, the 'bad' kids were left to fester.

I even got refused entry to my maths exam as I was going into sit the credit paper, but the teacher who was on the door said that it wasn't 'my' exam (he presumed I would be doing the foundation paper with the rest of my friends).
Thankfully I got in in the end, but the assumptions were there throughout many teachers.

dorothy

I really wish there was more of a talk of those of us who are married to a British spouse with British children.
(Btw I have been here nearly 20 years too and I am JUST scrapping by for the 5 years. Mainly because I just have the 5 years continuous employment even though I have been working, being self employed etc.... in that time)

Sorry, that last post was not the full story re why I felt empowered to push more than my friends.
That was in Scotland where I went to secondary aged 14.

I'd started secondary in England, where I went to a girl's grammar for 3 yrs (11+ area).
It was the 3 yrs at that school where the teachers instilled a real drive in us (we were almost all from working class families), as well as being lucky to have gone to good primary schools too.

Semi, that's exactly the stuff that I think will be reimposed though.

I always felt there was too many at university and not enough in more vocational subjects myself too, but education is now being attacked as a whole. There was a technical college when I was growing up, but it got closed down. Locally one has now opened but the amount of hostility it has got has been incredible. Its come from a surprising range of directions.

Marketing in this country has become much more gendered in recent years. You have male and female products for everything, when previously it was just the same item for both with the same style / colour. (Will someone tell me why basic razors 'for women' are more expensive than the male ones despite being exactly the same. I believe that what research has been done in the area has concluded its more expensive to be a woman). The pink and blue war on society is having an effect in lots of ways we don't realise imo.

The push for grammar schools appeals to that section of the population who did get out of the class. Their reinstatement is to satisfy those people, and to create the illusion that grammar schools will produce social mobility.

The problem is that in todays world the opposite is true. But then that is what the current government want. They want to put people back in boxes with no way out.

Its clever. It satisfies two separate groups through a smoke and mirrors scheme, rather than one that actually promotes a meritocracy.

Way, back when May started going on about a meritocracy I did think it odds and I did think it didn't break the cultural barriers over attitudes to education. Its making a lot more sense now about what May says and what she actually seeks to achieve. The two are not the same, but probably will satisfy the desires of important Tory groups and the promise will prop her support up for some time, until the illusion is shattered and the truth is revealed.

Grammar school entry exams are not publicly monitored, if you see what I mean

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/02/06/brexit-will-change-the-way-you-eat
Stuffed: How Brexit will change the way you eat

A story about turnips and having no one to dig them up. Well. Sort of.

Babbers-I follow on from Red

www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4d2056a8-be31-4553-9ca8-ef32580b26a7

I agree with Red on the education front. I think that there is a conspiracy to uneducate people to go back to 19th century class system. An educated mass is much easier to manipulate. This phenomenon is not only British though; it is happening in other countries such as France. The educational reforms of late there are producing kids who cannot read or write therefore they are given plenty of iPads !! The more the better! Thus they become good users and good future customers but these kids cannot think and are illiterate. However the elite will become even more elite.

Intellectual and vegetable turniperisation is the brave new world of bexit.
The brightest and best turnip nation.

Thanks for the links, all
I'm planning to go down to London for the march on 25/3
Need to get my placard sorted 👍

users and good future customers = debtors and consumers (slavery model).

I agree with you both
I've been saying for years that the tories want a return to the 1930s complete with social division and us plebs knowing our place
Well
FUCK THAT

Just this...

In a nutshell, if you think someone is racist this is why you should not tolerate it. You should tell them to stop being an ass.

Libertarianism has its own limits in that what is socially unacceptable by society has consequences and you should still be held accountable for what you say. Promoters of libertarianism are suggesting this is not the case. Ironically they don't actually understand what libertarianism is.

Therefore if what you say is beyond what is socially tolerable and has an impact on the lives of others in a negative way, then its ok to be intolerant. In fact it should be encouraged not indulged as a right to be a dick. Intolerance of ideas and liberalism is not incompatible, like certain libertarians like to make out.

Personally, I was encouraged not to be pro-censorship in media whilst I studied. And by and large I hold this view to this day. However, I do think the 'don't be a dick rule' of self censorship should be promoted more - especially with regard to media. Its not necessarily a bad thing. By all means give a platform to certain views but be careful in how it is framed and how much airtime it has. We have lost this idea of collective social responsibility over what is published and the impact it has.

The boundaries on this have been pushed too far. And indulged by the likes of the Labour party.

By all means have Milo on C4 news. Once. Not every god damn week and really give him a fucking hard time as you have a responsibility to those hurts in what he says. And have a word with yourself if you are giving him a platform on his own terms for your profits, like giving him a huge book deal.

This is not liberal fascism. This is not being a dick to your fellow human being.

We have few libraries, but we do have the most amazing learning available for free in t'internet, this thread a case in point, thanks all. Free and auto didactic education is another sub culture, rising up as the state stuff is so ridiculous and frankly cruel(KS1 grammar tests anyone?).

Home education is booming. And a lot of people home educate right up to degree level now. You can also do MAs without BAs, and definitely teach with no qualifications, or experience.

woman12345, don't get your turnips mixed up with your swedes whatever you do.

Channel 4 news has a very strange editorial culture atm. For 'strange' read 'white English entitled male'.

I home schooled ds1 for a year
He is back in the education system
Now but I would not hesitate to home school again
Ds2 is so bright but his love for learning is being destroyed by this new curriculum
😞😡

It's downright cruel, the new state curriculum. Private schools do what they want, including easier old fashioned iGCSEs. Education was weaponised partially on labour watch, but with utter machiavellian contempt by the usual suspects in last 7 years.

Sooooo many parents are teaching their own kids, which is a fun sub culture in itself, but has great challenges for parents and kids.

Am I right in thinking home schooled kids can do igcses?