Westministenders: Boris and God Knows what next. (I'm all out of ideas!)

[RedToothBrush]

Still a week until Stoke and Copeland. (Labour Hold/Con Gain unless something strange happens) QT is from Stoke next week.

A50 hits the Lords next week. Melania is being lined up to do something for the women. (God help us all).

Will UKIP survive? Will Nuttall survive? Will Labour survive? Will Trump survive? Will CNN survive? Will the Lords survive? Will Theresa May survive a class room of children?

All these questions and more

(Lico , I thought we only had to give 5 years worth of paperwork to get PR, even if we've been here for more than twenty years. As long as we have worked for 5 continuous years (not even necessarily the last 5) and have relevant proof, I thought it was ok? The form doesn't make it clear, in fact it makes it sound like you do need 20 years worth, but afaik you can just add a note saying you are asking for this or that period of 5 years to be considered, and the form itself is not even compulsory (obviously i wouldn't advise not to fill it in).)

That programme on food was quite good. After all the kerfuffle about Marmite, the supermarkets didn't make a fuss over the same result. Paying more for a certain amount of food.

I must admit the Tate & Lyle bit was interesting. It made me look up cane sugar. The following may be present in a few of the countries which produce Cane sugar.

Child and forced labour conditions. Workers being treated very badly wrt conditions and wages. Deforestation, destruction of habitat, overuse of chemical fertilisers and pesticides, water pollution, burning season from May to November giving rise to particulate and organic matter as well as smoke over large areas of the Amazon.

Reduction in food security as land previously used for food is given over to sugar as a cash crop for export.

It also seems that the EU gives preferential access encouraging countries to "comply with core international standards in the areas of human rights, labour rights, environmental protection and good governance.'

trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=1443&title=Trade-policy-promotes-sustainability-and-human-rights

I suppose it is a case of looking for the country of origin on the packet. Mind you if it is refined in the UK, I wonder if the country of origin is on the packet. And the more you do to a product, the more valuable it becomes. So, I guess the real development and support for these countries is to have a refinery based on their own soil and to export the refined sugar to maximise their income. If the aim is to support these developing economies. Mind you, Tate & Lyle would never say that.

I know T&L want the restrictions on cane sugar (which is an imported product) to be lowered for their profit margin. I don't see any benefit to the nigh on 4,000 farm which grow sugar beet in the UK. They produce 40% of sugar consumption in the UK, and this is capped at the moment. The EU cap on sugar beet production is due to be removed, so production could be increased, further competing with cane sugar. As stated in the article below “Bad news for beet farmers and British Sugar may be good news for Tate & Lyle."

www.raconteur.net/current-affairs/uncertain-times-for-the-uk-sugar-industry

Mind you with Leadsom allegedly in charge, I have sympathy for the farming sector.

Yes, you are right Fawful,
it is 5 years continous employment or self sufficiency for a period of 5 years. You can choose any 5 year period you like but you must be able to prove it with a lot of paperwork and evidence.
This is why it is easier for the newcomers to prove it; they have all the recent documents.
However in many cases of older resudents, they arrive , say in 1975 as students, did some odd jobs as you do , then get a proper job, then change address, change job, meet a man, get married, have children, raise children, go back to work part time, become self employed, husband develops disease, becomes carer etc, etc. then it is difficult for these residents to have a straight forward continous 5 years. The 5 continous years were at the beginning of their arrival in the UK but to retrieve the evidence such as 5 years's worth of bank statements , income, council tax , utilities bill from the 70's , 80's is difficult.
Moreover ´the Home Office does not accept the list of all the contributions you made for decades ; all they are interested in is that you are not a burden on the state (being married to a British Citizen or having British children is irrelevant in applying for Permanent Residence).

Just came through Hong Kong immigration and as usual In the arrival card I had written UK as my country of residence /place of birth / nationality etc. It has never been questioned before . The immigration officer crossed each one out and wrote in Br (note no G) and then looked up and grinned - Hong Kong immigration officers never smile. Our brand is in the gutter isn't it, forget being united or great.......

,,,

Our brand is in the gutter isn't it, forget being united or great.......

Can't be - our dear Leader Prime Minister has repeatedly told us that the country is open for business, so we Must have a strong brand.

The story from the Grauniad... As the council points out, this makes a mockery of Boris 'n' Theresa's claim that travel bans would not affect British passport holders (missing the main point as their claim was).

This makes me happy
www.indy100.com/article/ukip-stoke-by-election-paul-nuttall-window-sign-7590301

ron racism may be popular in this country, but it looks to normal people, bestial to the rest of the globe. It's going to be a stickier passport to have now.

lico and hardcore congratulations on the lobby. On behalf of this benighted island, "sorry". I'm pretty sure they'll come after everyone, if it's not parentage, it'll be something else, hardcore no one will be 'safe' that's the way this works.

Nicking pensions is fashionable too. (look at women whose pension age was suddenly raised, with little or no possibility of working).

Teacher shortages, it's a whole nuther thread. And if you see the AIBU type comments on teachers, you can see why! Next to baking turnips, people will have to do national teacher service. Schools lose most of their cheap young teachers within 5 years of starting. The many so called 'immigrant' teachers will be deported (many many of London's teachers) . Britain's brightest and best will have to enter the fray. Paul Nuttells of the ukips could go back to his first job, poor kids.

Does she consider citizens of the Muslim faith to be "proper British" ?
I bet she'd object if lone white males who were C of E were taken off planes, in case they shot up schools or black churches

Which reminds me ....

There was recently that deleted thread “Sandy Hook conspiracy, did it really happen? ”

Pre-referendum, I'd have assumed no mumsnetter would be fucking STUPID enough to take the batshit far right claims seriously:
Claims that noone died and the bereaved parents were actors, pretending their little DC had been murdered as part of a leftwing / Obama conspiracy to bring in gun control

(Reminder:
In 2012, a lone (white, non-Muslim) gunman shot dead 27 people: his mother, then 20 little children and 6 staff members at the Sandy Hook Elementary school, then committed suicide)

Well
My views on how stupid people are has taken a bit of a bashing recently tbh
😳

Also...
Where can I find a thorough non biased review of what happened yesterday in the Lords?

Morning btw! 😀

Badders: difficult . Best to watch it yourself. Some very good speakers last night. Between 19.00 and 20.45. I think you can watch again through BBC Parliament or get the transcript on the net. Google House of Lords.

I blame the English media BCF for the success of conspiracy theories. All English media is now Atlantic Bridge Pravda. The modest liberal press is Mercusian release valve.

Any one else notice that apparently no women MPs spoke against Trump in yesterday's debate, according to English media?

And that bexit (Stoke spelling) is a good thing, because English media is so crap, owned, corrupt. etc.

American journalists know well what can go wrong in their country if they don't call it out.

Shame English journalists don't feel the same.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/21/british-media-brexit-test-american-reporters

Where can I find a thorough non biased review of what happened yesterday in the Lords?

Thorough? Non Biased? Reviews by definition are biased.

You best just read Hansard if you don't want a biased filter:
hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2017-02-20/debates/30224DBB-4C77-4D65-A591-699EB7F99981/EuropeanUnion(NotificationOfWithdrawal)Bill

The more I see of this, the more I think May's plan is to try and get back to the old three class system, which involves nurfing education. This also directly attacks the class with the most immigrants. Also this suits Corbyn because it would mean a return to the power of the unions. Or so he thinks and that's his vision. Hence abandoning the same class the Tories least like. And the Tories have a very different vision for the unions. Changes in classes is what is seen as upsetting the older generations (who benefitted from changing classes) = both the middle and working classes. They do not value a university education, and the conservatives do not like the power of universities as they are seen as spreading liberal thought. It also means that there are a lot of people who fall in the intermediate new classes who are going to either see an elevation or get almightily stuffed. Everything that Labour and the Conservatives are doing fits with this shared explanation for their agendas. Again, it also involves running over women in the process by definition.

If the middle classes hold the balance of power this is dumb shit by Labour. It also means that keeping the middle classes happy but under control is the game.

Note here that Europeans do not have this same rigid notion of classes as the British, who are fucking obsessed with it to the point of self destruction.

It means kids today are screwed, in a global world were education IS the be all and end all.

The only people obsessed with the class system are the middle classes.
A university education isn't the be all & end all either - the push for everyone to go to university was misguided & destructive, reducing the value of 'having a degree'.
It's become a factory line of kids who think they have to 'get a degree' to succeed.
Universities are moving away from liberal thought too now, (liberal thought in the old fashioned sense - the new liberal thought is to think 'in the right way').

Yes I agree very much red, sadly. Good news for those who find themselves on the right side of the divide, very bad news for most.

Politicians could of course look for ways to adapt the political system to fit the new 7 tribe population, but instead they seem to be trying to return that population to the old class divisions to fit with the two sides of the House of Commons.

TSE ‏*@TSEofPB* 20hours ago
So I asked someone about Mrs May visiting Stoke today. This was their reply.

Here on MN we are WAYYYYYYYY Ahead of you there pal. Way ahead.

I honestly don't think it will be a LD win, but Stoke has huge potential for 4 way messy marginal. Tories are being opportunistic and think May turning up, will prevent them from an embarrassing 4th place. Her turning up is an admission of how close the party analysts think its going to be though.

Plus I keep hearing in my head that the Labour MP from a neighbouring constituency said she kept hearing on the doorstep. People were fed up and wanted change. People are willing to think about trying someone different. The Trump word. Change.

Also heard it said that May's visit to Stoke was also aimed drawing resources out of Copeland, where rumour is Labour think they can get it, if they can get the turnout. (personally I think that's wishful thinking but we'll see).

You really think that semi? There is a whole culture of 'not getting ideas above station' and 'remember where you came from'. Based on class.

I was at the lobby yesterday, very disheartening not to see it in the news.
I totally disagree about only the middle classes obsessing about "class" Wasn't J Bercow famously told by an anonymous aristocraticTory MP
JRM "If it was up to me we wouldn't have people like you here"? This is my experience also, I have heard that kind of comment from the British upper classes so many times that it doesn't shock me anymore.

It wasn't even a push to getting everyone into university - the plan was also for vocational education. That didn't happen - vocational education has become synonymous with non-academic, instead of being as it should be, something which requires ability and skill. It would be better to rename it Trade education and then we would know where we were.