Westministenders: Boris and The By-Elections

[RedToothBrush]

You lot post too fast!

A50 has made it out of the Commons without any amends. Its on its way to the Lords, but this week is half term, so in theory not much going on (in the UK at least). It hit the Lords on the 20th where it might not get such an easy ride. The Lords will not (and CAN NOT) stop brexit or frustrate it. But the numbers are in perhaps more favour of amendments if they choose to go that way, than the Commons. This would throw the bill back to the Commons. This is pretty reasonable.

In the meantime its 12 days to go until the Copeland and Stoke Central By-Elections.

Leave.Eu think UKIP have Stoke in the bag. They think there will be a 33% turnout. I think a turnout that high is the land of fantasy. Paul Nuttalls who was at Hillsborough is now a devout Stokie who has lived there all his life. Except of course he isn't.

Copeland looks like it will go Conservative. Its theirs to throw away. It would be the first victory for a sitting government in a by-election since 1983 if they make it. They intend to use a victory as another argument for a 'mandate'. But have they managed to drop a nuclear booboo?

One more Question. What are the chances of this thread making it to the 23rd?!

That's the sort of infustructure we need to be looking at Peregrina. There is also Immingham.
If we beefed up the roads to Felixstowe we could remove a lot of traffic from the south eastern ports. I know the roads around there well Peregrina I used to live in E Anglia. My brother died in an accident on the A12!

What about the rail network over there?

The passenger lines from Newcastle and Hull haven't closed Unicorn.

There used to be a route to Norway from Newcastle and a route from Harwich to Denmark and they both closed.

According to a BBC documentary theLeave party at the Houses of Parliament spent £1000 on alcohol for their party on referendum night.

Sorry about your brother, Corcory

I used to live in E Anglia too, so knew the roads. They have improved since my day, but not greatly. As far as I can see , the rail line stops before it gets to the dockside.

Re the A34 - there used to be a rail line from Didcot to Southampton. Closed under Beeching. Parts of the line were built on when the A34 was dualled, and parts have been covered over by housing. It would take enormous expense to acquire new land to replace that, and then resurrect the line. It is still possible to trace the course on Google maps BTW.

Sorry I meant the Norway ones. I'd tried to book and they no longer existed.

Having 20 different routes to Zeebrugge, Amsterdam and Calais shows which ports are important.

For 6 months, this thread was where I came daily to get news and information about Brexit (and then Trump). It was a mutually supportive and constructive exchange of views. I've always appreciated Red's (and others') efforts to post analysis and relevant links. It must take a great deal of time!
Lately it's been fractious. Maybe that's a sign of where we are in the process, as we approach the triggering of A50 (which may well be irrevocable).
I guess people are understandably anxious: there are so few answers about what it will be like, say, this time next year. We all worry about our families' futures.
I, for one, would feel happier if there'd been more debate given to Brexit in Parliament last week. It seemed to be lipservice. MPs were afraid to not 'toe the party line' so what was the point of it all? After everything Gina Miller did to give Parliament that chance.
I hope the Lords will have a more meaningful debate next week - they are more free to speak. I am writing to them about my concerns. One is about the true cost of Brexit. If voters had known that there would be a penalty? settlement? of tens of billions of euros, this may have give them pause for thought. Did the Government not know this would happen?

This is a useful website if anyone wants to write. It lists the Lords who have already put their names down to speak. (166 so far.)

www.lordswhips.org.uk/speakers-lists/20022017

Corcory and Peregrina,

I was involved in the A12 improvement works nearly 15 years ago when the highways agency were trying to close the random right turns across the A12 which would cause accidents but were commonly used by tractors.

They're still going. Hopefully it will be done before I retire.

Who is going to pay for the infrastructure improvements we need? We could have paid for them before. It's not like the eu were stopping us. But hey, we need better infrastructure so let's throw away our economy and hope it works

The Harwich to Denmark route shut recently after more than 150 years.

Unicorns - sigh. I used to live in a house on the A12 where the lorries turned for Harwich. Coming the other way from Harwich, it wasn't unknown for them to turn onto the wrong side of the road. Fortunately that section of road has now been bypassed.

I'm not dignifying Boreds comments with a reply. I also assume she/he must be independently wealthy.

Bottom line - for me personally and I suspect many more remainers - is that I cannot and never will be able to respect the views of anyone who hitched their wagon to farage et al and his vile views.

I've said before, if trump and Putin and le penn think brexit is a good thing it's time to radically rethink your policy.

I realise some will find this a simplistic view and perhaps it is, but I judge people not only on their actions but also on the company they keep.

Not a single leaver has come up with a plan. None. Farage, gove, Johnson....where are the detailed plans to take us out of the EU...That these people were campaigning for (for decades in farages case)?

Where are the cost analyses?

Where are the infrastructure plans?

Leavers seem very happy to live a limbo land where plans don't matter and to criticise those that find that baffling and scary

So many people say it's too late or why hasn't it been done before? Well near were I live we have a railway line that was closed in 1969. It ran from Edinburgh to Carlisle. It's closure made to biggest part of the whole of the UK without a train line. But 2 years ago a 30+ mile section of it was rebuilt and reopened. It has been a roaring success. There is a campaign to try and get the rest of the line open all the way to Carlisle which would make a massive difference to the economy of the area.
So it can be done.

Badders Tim Shipman's book and Cummings' blog both imply that Farage, Hannan and Rees-Moggs had ideas and ideologies that nobody would vote for.

JRM is almost a comedy villain Tory isn't he!?
God he is sooooo desperate for the speakers job!
I can only imagine what some of their policies were tbh Cecile
Farage won't be sticking around to wallow in the light of The new Albion anyway...he will move to Europe and continue to enjoy the rights we have thrown away
Leaving the ECJ worries me very much

Who is going to pay for those projects? Especially at the expedited speed in they'll need to be done at. How many people will lose homes to compulsory orders and get totally screwed by them given the emergency we've now put ourselves in? How would that help the housing crisis? How do we mitigate quality issues for speed? Where will the workers come from? Do we re extend the welcome for the cheap eu labour we've already told we hate and don't want? Do we force people to move for the work?

It's not that it can't or won't be done. It's who pays and how the hell does it get done quickly at what costs.

It's who pays and how the hell does it get done quickly at what costs.

There's more to life than money, remember? If we all Pull Together and Just Believe, it will happen. Or we'll get the money from the Big Red Lie Bus.

There is a campaign to try and get the rest of the line open all the way to Carlisle which would make a massive difference to the economy of the area. So it can be done.

It is a campaign though, isn't it? It's not a plan coming from the Government. Wasn't David Steele pressing for the line to re-open throughout the time it was closed? So, it's been 46 years. Can we really wait another 46 years?

Yes David Steele always did want the line reopened but he didn't spend 46 years of his life trying!
Feasibility studies are being done at a fair cost so it's not out of the bounds of possibility.
I don't think everything needs to be done in two years so this idea that everything must be ready and done speedily is not necessarily the case.
As trade increases then the need will become greater and the funds will become more available.

OK Corcory, but how much of this is coming from Government? Or perhaps I should ask, the Westminster Government?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4215816/Reverend-suspended-job-sent-MP-hate-mail.html

An Anglican cleric has been suspended from his job after telling Conservative MP Anna Soubry: ‘Burn in hell you evil bitch!’

The Reverend Philip Fowles sent the hateful message about her stance on Brexit using an official email account from the Anglican retirement homes where he works.

His message also claimed that the prominent Brexit critic was a ‘traitor’ and a ‘disgrace to our great party’, suggesting he is an active Conservative supporter.

When Ms Soubry reported the email to police, Rev Fowles apologised for ‘the tone’ of his outburst, before seemingly backtracking saying that it was ‘heartfelt’ and written ‘in the heat of the moment’.

I am so confused. Wasn't it only Remainers who are supposed to be angry, moaning, not sucking-it-up and viciously attacking those who might disagree with them, who are eternally blameless in all things? Or, maybe, this is one of those irregular verbs ?

Ah I get it. We have too much trade for our infrastructure now so rather than pay to improve it we can take some drastic action to reduce trade to the point where we don't need the infrastructure improvements anymore.

Which will be good because the money won't exist to pay for it with the accompanying economic downturn.

A workable plan

For example, RTB posted a linked today on about page 5 which had already been posted on page 1.

With respect, I normally do try and check what other people have previously but the thread moves V fast, and when others have done the same I regard it as poor form to point out.

Also I've been trying to take a few days out from posting to refresh my thinking as yes it has got a bit heavy lately.

I think ive struggled as things have been so full of lies and I'm beginning to harden my stance against a creeping normalising of unacceptable things.

I believe in the principal that liberalism is to be tolerant of all things. Except intolerance.

And that's currently where we are at. It's a little bit like being a cornered rat.

Anyway, ive just seen a newspaper article of Paul Nuttalls which has had me in stitches which I'll try and post at some point.

Otherwise I'm off to enjoy the rest of my weekend before DH chews my ear off for being on the internet again...