Westministenders: Boris and The By-Elections

[RedToothBrush]

You lot post too fast!

A50 has made it out of the Commons without any amends. Its on its way to the Lords, but this week is half term, so in theory not much going on (in the UK at least). It hit the Lords on the 20th where it might not get such an easy ride. The Lords will not (and CAN NOT) stop brexit or frustrate it. But the numbers are in perhaps more favour of amendments if they choose to go that way, than the Commons. This would throw the bill back to the Commons. This is pretty reasonable.

In the meantime its 12 days to go until the Copeland and Stoke Central By-Elections.

Leave.Eu think UKIP have Stoke in the bag. They think there will be a 33% turnout. I think a turnout that high is the land of fantasy. Paul Nuttalls who was at Hillsborough is now a devout Stokie who has lived there all his life. Except of course he isn't.

Copeland looks like it will go Conservative. Its theirs to throw away. It would be the first victory for a sitting government in a by-election since 1983 if they make it. They intend to use a victory as another argument for a 'mandate'. But have they managed to drop a nuclear booboo?

One more Question. What are the chances of this thread making it to the 23rd?!

We were already part of the rest of the world. Doesn't Germany do significantly more trade with China than we do? Yet they are part of the EU, so it can't be the EU stopping them.

What we will find is that a majority of countries are now in trade blocs. Where is this extra trade going to come from? Well one Tory, Richard Graham, I think he was, suggested that we would sell financial services to sub-Saharan Africa in return for cheap food. I couldn't really take that suggestion seriously.

I think we should embrace new ideas.

Tell us what those 'new ideas' were then?

The fact most of us on here can't see them is exactly why we're having this discussion.

corcory wind your neck in.

I haven't flounced anywhere.

Many on this thread, including you, have posted on here then reported directly back to the pub thread when things aren't going your way or when you think you've got the upper hand.

I find that particularly childish.

Argue your point all day long but give over with the, 'I'm bored of Bears questions so can't possibly answer anyone else'

I don't even understand why any remainers look at the pub thread tbh. If there's one thing we should have learnt in the last year it's that leavers will never engage in substantive debate. They like feelings and slogans and flags. They are not curious about the way trade works; they don't like discussions about customs law or the economics of international trade, and won't engage in discussions on these subjects.

I find it all profoundly depressing and a real wake-up call regarding the quality of public education.

I think many of the obstacles put in the way by the remainers on here like that of the problems of HMRC and the haulage industry need to be looked at in a different way so that we are not so dependant on the few ports we have and we should use other ports in other parts of the country as was suggested by one poster. I think there are solutions to most problems if we look at them differently.
I think this change is a good chance for us to have a long look at how we have become so dependant on certain other countries for workers/products etc.
For instance we really have to look at the NHS and it's training policy long term so that we are not so dependant on recruiting Drs., nurses and other staff from outside the UK.
We need to look at our infustructure as mentioned up thread. Too much of it is centred around the south east.
These are just a few things I can think of at the moment.

Oh and I've to wind my neck in - that's rich Bear!

Misti - I must be a figment of my own imagination then!

Hashi, I originally reported the 6 countries secondhand when I read it in the Hansard debate. But we will be the first since the 90s to have no trade deals whatsoever.

Life is worth more than money.

Try to get that and you might get it.

bored that is a very trite and somewhat patronising response. Obviously there's more to life than money, but if the result is - for example - further cuts to disability benefits, decimation of the NHS, cuts to Education etc that would impact on quality of life for huge numbers of people.

God will provide Perhaps, bear, you're wealthy and none of this will affect you, but your willingness to trivialise the potential impact on the low paid, the disabled, the JAMs, social care, education, etc. amply demonstrates why people are tired of the responses of leave voters. Can you really only talk in cliches and soundbites? TM et al must love this kind of thoughtless blind faith.

(waits for accusation of 'virtue-signalling')

"we are not so dependant on the few ports we have and we should use other ports in other parts of the country"

In order to be competitive ports need to operate at enormous scale. This isn't going to work, unless we nationalise ports and run them at a loss.

Sorry cecile. And at the addition!!!

Corcory, I can't disagree with your last post.

But where are the plans for this? New port facilities and roads to serve them, don't just materialise. It's extremely unlikely to happen in two years. I haven't seen any tangible plans from Theresa May's Government - she seems more interested in scoring points, or trying to score points. Eventually it might bring decent work to more areas, but how long will those areas have to wait?

Ditto with the NHS - it has been deliberate policy to recruit from abroad, first from the Commonwealth and then from the EU. With the best will in the world to plan for new training places for health care staff, train them and then place them in post after the appropriate qualifying period is going to take at least 5 years, or in the case of Doctors, more like ten. Then we need to hang onto the ones we have trained. Jeremy Hunt is not doing a good job there, with staff leaving in droves. My own Drs surgery is under threat because of staffing issues. In the Witney by election, the closure of a local surgery was one of the main issues.

Infrastructure yes - we could probably cancel HS2 ( although there is more need for more freight rail capacity between London and Birmingham), but where are the plans to improve the Trans Pennine link? I can tell you, they are not there.

Improve broadband? Telecoms are low down on TM's Government's priorities.

The will to do something is not there.

So if you feel strongly, try to do something about it. Admittedly, what to do is a good question. I have written to my MP umpteen times now about various issues over the years. She was never the best at answering letters but she would eventually. Since the Referendum? One standard letter parrotting the 'will of the people'. Other issues - zilch.

Mistigris - that is exactly what happened. I had hobbled to the Louvre and eventually broke down in tears where the very cute policeman called a police van and took me to the hospital beside Notre Dame and we went straight into the equivalent of A&E and I was seen straight away. Not sure if the fact that I was taken there by the police helped! I was even given the x-ray to show my dad after I said he was a a radiologist.

In order to be competitive ports need to operate at enormous scale

What ports ?

London and Liverpool are all housing now. And who would dream of erven beginning to compete with Rotterdam ?

I think there are solutions to most problems if we look at them differently. I agree with corcory about this. HOWEVER, this, again, was one of the things that prevented me from voting leave... I could not see one single MP who appeared to have any kind of real vision, nobody who could inspire people (beyond Farage, who 'inspired' the racist vote with his nasty poster and talked in simplistic soundbites that would appeal to a particular type of voter). Do you think Liam Fox, Theresa May, David Davies etc have vision? Boris? Gove? Patel? Or did yoIt's been said often enough on these threads - Remainers tend not to think of the EU as some sort of Utopian ideal, but when you look at the leaders of both Leave campaigns you don't exactly get a sense that they are creative, enterprising, shrewd or visionary. Instead you see lumpen MPs that just happen to have (or assert that they have) a different opinion from others.

God will provide Perhaps, bear, you're wealthy and none of this will affect you

I think you've mixed your poster up there twofingers

I could talk too about the shortage of school places. At one time the Local Authority would have been able to plan for the need and build a school. Timing is a bit difficult with Nursery schools, but for other stages possible.

We need a new school locally. A plot of land is earmarked. The Local Authority hunted around to find an Academy Trust/Free School willing to take on the responsibility and eventually succeeded. Their plan was rejected. So 2 years on, still no progress on a new school. Such stupidity makes me furious. Theresa May's plans for Education? New Grammar Schools.

No need to apologise, Hashi, I was just trying to come forward as the source to back you up :) I'm glad you remembered.

I don't even understand why any remainers look at the pub thread tbh

I look there because this thread can be a bit 'deep'.

For example, RTB posted a linked today on about page 5 which had already been posted on page 1.

I do think it can be a bit one sided when people clearly aren't even reading what others post.

Having said that, the pub thread is now vacuous.

A middle ground might be nicel

Perhaps, bear, you're wealthy

Sorry, bear! That was meant to be to bored, who came out with God will provide

Perhaps, bored, you're wealthy and none of this will affect you, but your willingness to trivialise the potential impact on the low paid, the disabled, the JAMs, social care, education, etc. amply demonstrates why people are tired of the responses of leave voters. Can you really only talk in cliches and soundbites? TM et al must love this kind of thoughtless blind faith.

Mother - that is the problem with the argument I want to get away from - why haven't they done already so why are they going to do it now? Well necessity is the mother of invention as they say.

I really feel politicians need a big jolt and stop thinking only in bit sizes of 5 years till the next election and start thinking long term.
I am hoping this is going to give them the jolt they need and think out of the box.

As a port Felixstowe has already been mentioned and it is a huge container port. But the roads there aren't good. There is the A12 and A14 both dual carriageways and both a long way from the nearest motorway.

Are there any plans to build a motorway? I haven't heard. Are there any plans to beef up the rail links to the North and Midlands? Again, I haven't heard of any.

Latest French polls

www.linternaute.com/actualite/politique/1357555-election-presidentielle-2017-dates-candidats-sondages-resultat/

It is clear that there is a huge infrastructure gap in this country and it is sufficiently clear that the chancellor of the exchequer has expressly realised this in every budget for about 20 years.

No one wants to pay for it. Especially now that the real costs of PFI are clear.

One new train line to London has opened recently. This link is apparently the first new train line into London for 100 years. It took 3 years to get permission for it all and 2 years to build. How long has Heathrow third runway been discussed?

Not even to mention upgrades to the A12, a13 or A34 which would be needed if the south and east coast ports are to be used fully. The feasibility for major shipping routes from Newcastle or hull hasn't begun to be thought about for freight but the passenger lines have closed.