The Brexit Arms.

[surferjet]

So.......where were we?

haha - love it.

bored.

Caught some QT last night and lots of soul soothing critism of Blair!!! Very cathartic.

Indeed.

Has anyone elses message screen changed? I've got something that looks like a loudhailer...hope thats not a personalisation based on my posts

May have to watch QT on iplayer purely on that recommendation Mrexit

Bored - no loudhailer for me, I have just got a boring paperclip

Interesting new idea from Mr Gove re removing the tax exemption from private schooling & redistributing it to the most disadvantaged kids.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/put-vat-on-school-fees-and-soak-the-rich-fmpjv2zd9

Absolutely agree with Gove on this. I would go further and levy the private schools for every State sector trained teacher they poach.

I think there is a problem with all charitable status and the tax advantages that go with it. eg Wealthy areas wanting to support the local scout troop have loads of tax paying parents and gps who can giftaid and boost donations through tax reclaim. They also have parents with employers keen to do likewise. Poorer areas have fewer people with spare cash to donate and when they do donate fewer who are paying tax which can be reclaimed. Raising the personal allowance has exacerbated this inequality.

The other issue with outsourcing to the charity sector is that while the State often provides much of the funding it does not control access or quality and absolves itself of responsibility.

Well, I'm not sure. Can I offer a different view?

On an average private school fee of £20k, vat would be £4k, which is equivalent to what the state saves by not funding a place for those children in private schools.

Also, as a rule most educational matter is vat exempt. And if charged in one sector would it then be applicable to nurseries, universities and so on?

Finally, IME many teachers - unless drawn by the prestige of just a handful of schools - prefer the state sector, as private schools have very long days, especially when you include all the before and after school provision, and often Saturday school.

There could be a complusory period when the tracher had to work in the state sector or repay costs of training - that was suggested for the doctor drain but didn't go down well.

Change is needed but I don't think this is the answer.

I'm interested in all views Bored!

As with the NHS discussion on the other thread, it's interesting to see all the different variations of views and solutions.

NHS, education, the prison system & welfare system need to be non-political first & foremost in my view - otherwise there will never be any long term vision, just short term point scoring.

I agree. I hope that post brexit UK provides chances to reset all sorts of stuff.

Interesting and valid points bored. One of the reasons I don't educate my DC privately is that I agree that the teaching quality in the State sector is generally better and this is borne out by the stats. A lot of the schools in the Glasgow area bolster their results by importing high performing students from the State sector for their final years.

Funding per pupil is difficult to quantify in Scotland. West Coast private schools are about £12k and East Coast about £24k. State city schools can have funding as low as £2.5k per pupil but in the islands it can be closer to £50k. In terms of value added education there is an argument to be made that the £2.5k produces just as good or better results than the £24k and so the bursary funding the private sector provides could do more good in the school the pupil already attends.

Definitely agree education and health should be depoliticised and these sort of issues discussed more openly, but I don't see it happening.

We have tried both State and private education for ours. Our 2 have a combination of ASD, ADHD and sensory problems which made it very difficult for them to stay calm and concentrate at all in the local village school with it's 'large' classes with a mix of ages and abilities. We were lucky to be offered a bursary by the local prep. school which meant they could be educated in smaller quiet classes in a traditional way where all the children were of like minds and wanted to work.

5 Years on they are now at the best local Senior school we could find. Our DD is getting on fine but DS is really struggling and again we are looking at a private school for him.

We certainly wouldn't be in a position to pay any more than the most basic of fees and the idea that you add 20% VAT to only this particular part of education seems ridiculous. At the moment private schools are not VAT registered so can't reclaim VAT but if they were they could reclaim on all their expenses as well.

Most parents who send their children to private schools are not oligarchies or the super rich so many children that go at the moment would then return to the state system. Each British child in private education is saving the tax payer the money that would be spent by the state on their child's education.

The Michael Gove's of this world who live in the exalted environs of Holland Park and have the tenacity to send their children to the 'local' secondary school and think that proves their political credentials are kidding them selves. They can easily afford to pay for private education yet deprive another child from getting into this 'good' school by getting their education free. Obviously the residents of Holland park are far from poor so the school they have locally isn't exactly like the one you get in the local housing estate in a northern town.

Michael Gove went to private school himself, the fucking hypocrite.

I think every one in government who wants to ban grammar or private have been educated in them themselves and their dc too. On Qt last night Farage Knight hood was mentioned. I always thought it was joke but it seems perhaps it was serious thing. In which case he should he knighted.

Lol at DT banning the BBC - you gotta love him.

' Lol at DT banning the BBC - you gotta love him.'

I know

I think that's great. Who else would dare to do that!

Will bbc has now admitted suppressing immigration stories in early 2000,s its right its called out

See David Miliband is back on the scene. Hmmm....
( Pack your bags Jeremy )

My DF went to private school and hated every minute he was there. Maybe there's a reason people who went to them want to ban them?

David Milliband hasn't even been living and working in the UK for the past few years so I have to wonder why he thinks he is any more likely to "get it" than Tony Blair. Also the shenanigans with him and his brother is just as toxic for him as it was for Ed. If Douglas Alexander was thinking about a comeback then I might be interested.

Watched Farage with Piers Morgan last night - was interesting.

David Millibands been trousering £350,000 a year in charity funding utterly despicable champagne socialist he can fottfsofatfosm

Wish I'd put that as eloquently as you Infinite

I think Sadiq just got himself permanently crossed off the Nippy Sweetie's Christmas card list.

"There's no difference between those who try to divide us on the basis of whether we're English or Scottish and those who try to divide us on the basis of our background, race or religion."

Also looks like he is over the idea of declaring Independence for London.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39089604

David Milliband can indeed fuck off!
I'm right there with you Infinite

I quite like Andy Burnham tbh, but he's preoccupied with the Mayor of Manchester thing. Saying that, I'm glad he didn't get the leadership when JC did - labour needed a massive shake-up, and I think completely crumbling under JC is no bad thing in the long term.

Much as I think JC is a shit leader, and there's a lot of guff in his ideology, there are some decent principles in amongst it all.

Once the MPs who are far more aligned with the Lib(non)Dems fuck off for good, the Labour Party can come back with a new sense of vision & purpose - there's quite a few of the 2010/2015 intake who are too green at the mo but who will be ready from 2020 onwards to really make Labour count again.

I think it might be another Tory term for 2020 - 2025, but I'd expect Labour to be putting up a good opposition by then.

Was going to say, Howabout, that 'London v rest of England' was missing from his speech.

Re Labour, there seems no way other than to split. Sort of Champagne Socialists v Shandy Socialists.

On the European beverage side, Miliband will just fill the gap left by Blair, with the unacceptable faces of Blair and Mandleson, hidden behind the puppeteers curtain.

Meanwhile, the Real ale and pop side, unless they are careful will inherit slightly more presentable versions of Jezza, like RLB and the woman who was on QT the other night, which would be a shame when there are decent politicians like Gisela Stuart and Kier Starmer.

This article is quite interesting.
capx.co/ZKV63 via @CapX