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Brexit

The Brexit Arms - All welcome. :-) :-)

999 replies

surferjet · 31/01/2017 20:29

So .....how are we all this evening?
Wine

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Thread gallery
31
Badders123 · 05/02/2017 11:58

Cecile...ffs! Don't "bore" them with facts and stats!!
They don't want to know
Might feel different once we jump of the cliff - DT ripping up Dodds-frank is vey bad news
For all of us
Come back to the rational, fact based thread
👀👋

surferjet · 05/02/2017 12:01

I'm just going to sit back and let the insults roll in now.

Not really what this thread is about tbh, we're just a bunch of happy brexiteers.

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Badders123 · 05/02/2017 12:04

Enjoy yourselves!!

JamieXeed74 · 05/02/2017 12:06

I am considering switching my vote to becoming a remoaner. Can anyone point me to the FACTS about what the EU will be like in 20 years? If I cant find out detailed facts about every aspect of the EU 20 years from now then I will have to assume no one knows what it will be like and that leads me to the conclusion that it will be a disaster.

... OMG the EU is going to be a disaster we have to leave now, asap, the UK will be ruined if we stay because the facts just dont add up, I dont know I am so upset, does anyone care about the children? Where are the FACTS?

CeciledeVolanges · 05/02/2017 12:08

Just today I have seen "yawn-some", "hysterical", "crushing bores", "internet truckers", "elitist and snowflakey" (although that may have been sarcastic, it has been said here before).

But if you say that isn't what this thread is about, I will take it on good faith. I also took your thread title - "all welcome" in good faith and tried to bring in some substantive discussion, but I will go off and bore some other people if you would prefer to have a (very unsnowflakey) safe space in which your opinions aren't challenged.

I sincerely wish all of you the best of luck.

IamWendy · 05/02/2017 12:10

Just in case you all wanted to know, the word sinister comes from thinking that left handed people were underhanded and malicious. So, we can't use that word anymore, it's LOADED with meaning. Mmmmmkaaaay?

CeciledeVolanges · 05/02/2017 12:15

I'm aware of that too - I don't think prejudice against left-handed people is quite as rampant as misogyny, and indeed the stigma of mental illness, these days. So the context isn't the same at all.

SemiPermanent · 05/02/2017 12:17

The problem howabout, is that many would rather ignore the long ongoing plight and disenfranchisement of the people in the article you linked to.

Much easier & more palatable to virtue signal from your warm kitchen about why Trump Is A Bad Man, and ponder the origins of words.

It is very, very easy to simply denounce Trump or Brexit out of hand, it is much more difficult to acknowledge and take ownership of the rot that has been allowed to fester for far too long.
(In the US, the UK & across Europe).

Trump is the symptom, Brexit is the symptom - they are not the cause.

SemiPermanent · 05/02/2017 12:20

the Ancient Greek theory that mental illness was the result of a wondering womb

Who knew that a womb could be contemplative?!

I presume you actually meant 'wandering' womb? (Ancient Egyptian's believed the womb was an animate object).

SemiPermanent · 05/02/2017 12:28

To invoke misogyny, after linking a piece which patronised the fuck out of me as a woman is frankly bizarre.

I am a woman.
I can make choices & decisions even if information is delivered in a 'blokish environment'.
I do not need women to 'talk to me' or 'to persuade me', I am perfectly capable of listening to people of either sex & making my own conclusions.

The contents of someone's pants is neither here nor there to me when they are delivering information.

surferjet · 05/02/2017 12:29

Oh stop being a drama queen CeciledeVolanges - you know you're all welcome here, we like you coming in and chatting with us - we don't agree with you on very much but so what? It's nice to hear different opinions, we just go into great detail anymore because we did that back in June/ July. Brexit news changes all the time, we just comment when we have the time.

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Corcory · 05/02/2017 14:22

In Scotland we have a saying - 'it's ie bin'. In English that means it has always been like this so why do we need to change it!!!

SemiPermanent · 05/02/2017 16:06

Jonathan Pie on how the 'liberal left' are handing the moral high ground to Trump:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=miE-kwQM0mo

TheAugury · 05/02/2017 16:18

Just done a great little quiz 'How Liberal Elite Are You?' In today's Sunday Times magazine 80/150+ apparently I show signs of wealth and intimations of cultural superiority but am aware of the humdrum everyday existence endured by 95% of the population.

SemiPermanent · 05/02/2017 16:18

Also v v funny - Melissa McCarthy as Sean Spicer:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QBf9bSNYje8

surferjet · 05/02/2017 17:15

Grin TheAugury

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howabout · 05/02/2017 18:58

"We would be foolish to deny that it could just be possible, from the perspective of the median voter, that the odious populists are getting the economy right when the liberal elite did not."

www.ft.com/content/646cf682-d9bc-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e

Stumbled on this brilliant piece of heresy while trying to work out how liberal elite I am (only 45% according to Buzzfeed) Smile

boredofbrexit · 05/02/2017 19:08

howabout: that article is behing a paywall..could you copy and paste chunks of it please?

howabout · 05/02/2017 22:23

Sorry, not sure why I can see behind the paywall. Here is the gist.

"Starting this week, we need to get our heads around the possibility that US President-elect Donald Trump is simultaneously reprehensible and economically successful — at least for some time. The instinct has often been to conflate political decency and economic efficiency because this is what has been done for such a long time. Fortuitously, our open, liberal systems also happened to be the most efficient. They even produced an acceptable distribution of income until about 10 years ago. Yet the period from 1989 to 2007 was exceptional — history is littered with economically successful dictators and economically disastrous liberal democrats.....

.....Brexit has been a particularly bitter experience. Not only were the economic forecasts electorally disastrous, but some of them were wrong. It was gracious of Andy Haldane, Bank of England chief economist, to admit the limitations of economic forecasting. But he is an exception. I know economists who now say that Brexit will cause a recession this year, having failed to produce one in 2016.

One of the many factors the forecasters have failed sufficiently to consider is the global environment. A Brexit-induced sterling crash could in theory have turned out to be dangerous. But this is not the 1970s. We are living in an age of excess global liquidity, which renders a fall in sterling self-limiting. Asian investors, for example, are streaming into the top of the London property market, where they find deflated prices, which they pay with a devalued currency.

The truth is that our ability to forecast the future beyond the current quarter is limited. We certainly cannot forecast the economic impact of a complex political event, such as Brexit or the election of a new US president. Too many future unforeseen events will intrude.

We cannot translate the result of an opinion poll into an election probability, either. People keep asking me to tell them the probability of Marine Le Pen, the far-right National Front leader, winning the French presidency. The problem is that the election campaign has not even started. The correct answer about the probability of a Le Pen victory is that I do not have the foggiest. Nor does anyone else.

The curse of our time is fake maths. Think of it as fake news for numerically literate intellectuals: it is the abuse of statistics and economic models to peddle one’s own political prejudice. More often than not, there is a kernel of truth in those forecasts, as there was in the BoE’s prediction of what could happen after Brexit. The fakeness of the maths lies in an exaggerated inference. Economic models have their uses, as do opinion polls. They provide information to policymakers and markets. But nobody can see through the fog of the future.

Fake maths has given us, the liberal establishment, the illusion of certainty. Once the illusion crumbles, we are left with an uncomfortable question: is it possible that some populist demagogues will end up producing better economic policy than our friends in Davos? Take Italy as an example. The euro has been a disaster for the economy. If a populist were to win the Italian election, force a euro exit and default on foreign investors, is it not at least possible they would spur a genuine economic recovery? I do not know the answer; I know for sure that the present regime will not.

The populists could succeed simply by undoing the mistakes of the present regime. They will not succeed in the long run. But they may succeed before they fail. The political and economic regime change we are undergoing constitutes the most serious assault on our values I can remember. We would be foolish to deny that it could just be possible, from the perspective of the median voter, that the odious populists are getting the economy right when the liberal elite did not."

boredofbrexit · 05/02/2017 23:08

howabout...thanks for posting that. Very interesting...it reads as if it should say 'end of part 1, more to follow'...which is maybe the whole point...

boredofbrexit · 05/02/2017 23:29

I don't know much about LePen, nothing about French politics either, but it looks like she is is running quite a clever campaign. She used this slogan ' The divide is no longer between left and right but between patriots and globalists'. Whether one agrees with her politics, that is smart positioning.

TheAugury · 06/02/2017 07:41

fake news for numerically literate intellectuals: it is the abuse of statistics and economic models to peddle one’s own political prejudice
I've been trying (InfiniteSheldon) to say this on every EU thread, the experts so beloved by some Remainers are so guilty of this and moreover of conflating the kernel of possible truth unto the general population just don't believe them any more.

Good points about Italy too, their situation Re the Euro and their banking crisis can only be helped by leaving the EU. The liberal elite seem to think Greece sort of deserves what it gets as the population either failed to pay their own taxes/abused the pension and state sector salaries. The utter failings of the EU to either vet Greece properly or prepare them properly or even protect and help them once the EU got its sticky fingers all over the Greek economy in any useful long term way get ignored in favour of blaming the 'peasants' for not behaving.

surferjet · 06/02/2017 07:43

The French National Front have always had massive support over there, which is why I never understand people who say the UK is racist. Our BNP would never get the support the far right parties get in Europe - the Europe our elite are so desperate to cling to.

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TheAugury · 06/02/2017 07:57

Interesting that the message Le Pen is standing on is 'Patriots v Globalists' I feel the Brexit divide is Patriotic Globalists v Little Europeans Smile

liberia03 · 06/02/2017 08:21

Our BNP would never get the support the far right parties get in Europe
?